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AI nutjobs spoil this game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by FLUKE, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. LlamaCat

    LlamaCat Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,212
    if you are a builder you need to learn diplomacy more... after all that's supposed to be part of being a peaceful leader in the world :)

    yeah, as was mentioned, don't start adopting religions and expect your neighbors to just be nice about it! when dealing with other leaders, you have to finesse them or be powerful -- or even better, do both -- otherwise you will get screwed.

    the game is very realistic in this sense and it's kind of neat. If you want to just peacefully build and never worry about being attacked, just play on Chieftain level against Gandhi or something.

    obsolete's walkthrough games showed me how you need to avoid adopting and even being the one to initial found religions, thereby allowing everyone else to convert and start hating each other, and giving you the flexibility to adopt those religions that will benefit you the most diplomatically.
     
  2. sheep21

    sheep21 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
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    562
    Location:
    London
    i dunno, am playing a modern warfare mod at the moment and im way ahead of the competition techs wise when catherine (an ex vassal of mine!), cyrus munsa masa and Isabella all declare on me!

    I won through limeted warfare but it was quite a stomach churning moment and distracted me enough for china to close the gap a little more.


    EDIT: Appears this is my first post, for the record im a long term lurker. So, hello!
     
  3. slightlymarxist

    slightlymarxist Comrade

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2001
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    Sweden
    I'm a nutjob. :mischief:

    Seriously, I love the "nutty" AI:s. I hate the builder/protective ones though. Having one or two psychos in a game prevents insane tech mongering on the AI:s behalf. You know the drill; Ghandi, Mansa and friends stocking up on juice and launching a space ship while you're still trying to figure out how to peel bananas over on your own continent.
     
  4. CoolHandDan

    CoolHandDan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    It happens. Just learn to overcome. I played a game where every AI on the same contintent declared war on me, pillaged within my borders, attritioned my forces with air ships as I tied to muster an offense, and sabotaged several of my best cities through espionage. My civilization declined and fell for the next century until I was over ran by successive invasions. Sucks. I was pissed off. But I started a new game and was once more in the breach.
     
  5. PimpyMicPimp

    PimpyMicPimp Regrets His Username.

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,673
    Location:
    Regina, Saskatchewan
    It can make from some epic conclusions. In my current game, continents, I conquered my continet and Shaka is on his way to conquring his (not including the cities I have on it and his vassal). There is one power left and it's a rush between me and him to cut up the Egyptian lands and then the final battle is on!
     
  6. Morgrad

    Morgrad Attack Rodent

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    367
    Another point:

    Civ IV is adaptable enough and people are individual enough that all this "it ain't so bad!" might just make you think "but I still hate it!"

    Play the game the way you want to have fun - set a custom game and assign AIs so you don't have the psychos. Go to the mod forum and ask how to (hopefully temporarily) remove the AIs you hate from the random AI generator.

    I prefer to play the game as-is, but one of the beautiful things about Civ IV is that you don't have to.

    So, if the psycho AIs ruin the game for you to the point where you don't have fun if they're involved, and you'd rather not adapt (because it won't be fun for you), use you options and don't play against them! :)
     
  7. needsomesleep

    needsomesleep Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    54
    Fluke,
    I completely agree. I feel forced to spend more time building and maintaining an army in CIV, especially now in BTS, than I would like to. Maybe I need to try a protective Civ, but sometimes I don't WANT to play for a domination victory, and I feel like if you dont' kill at least two of you opponents, you don't have a chance.
    Someone suggested "use diplomacy" Well, you can make nice all you want, and if someone offers your best friend 1000 gold and a new tech, that friend is going to shove a knife in your back the next chance he gets. It's probably even worse, becuase you've probably got extra forces on your boarders by people who AREN'T your friends thinking, oh I don't know, that your friends won't try to kill you. What value does diplomacy have here? If I was really "friendly" with someone and someone else bribed me to do them harm, I wouldn't do it. But the AI doesn't look at it that way.
    I don't want to have to make a customized game where I pick the terms and where I pick the opponents. I want to play a random game where I have to adapt the civ I get to the terain I get and the victory style that will work best. In a recent game I was Dutch, and conquest seemed to be my only option, even though I was creative and financial. That's a bad combo, IMHO.
    Of course, I keep going back because I'm determined to beat this game again!
     
  8. CoolHandDan

    CoolHandDan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    Its just like real international relations. Backstabbing, intrigue, balance of power, anarchy.
     
  9. FLUKE

    FLUKE Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Wales
    I think there should be a maximum number of turns for war - say 20, and an enforced truce of 25 turns once peace is declared. That way you have the randomness of warmongering AI's and a bit of peace and quiet to do some building.
     
  10. el toro loco

    el toro loco Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    arcata, ca
    the ai can be completely thick in the head. take my last 2 games for example.

    1st game i'm fooling around w/ world builder and build 10 modern era tanks at the beginning of the game. so obviously my power graph is dominant. ceaser crosses 3 different neighboring territorries w/ a stack of eight archers to declare on me. it must of taken him 30 or so turns just to make it to my territory. it makes no sense. so i took a single tank all the way across the continent to destroy his entire civ.

    2nd and current game. tokugawa and i have a plus 8 relationship. he is 2nd in power while i'm 3rd. there are 4 civilization well below me in power that have bad military techs. why declare on me and not weaker civs. so he drops 20 or so calvary next to my weakest city and razes it. it takes me all of 5 turns to mount counterattack and take him out.

    i don't mind the ai attacking me if there is reason behind it. but half the time it just feels like a random thing to piss you off. a modern day comparison would be australia attacking the united states just because they don't like george bush. or the united states attack british right after w.w. II because they felt like the british owed it to them. it just wouldn't happen and makes the game much less fun.
     
  11. bluedevil99

    bluedevil99 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    139
    I used to hate this aspect of the game; now I kind of like it. The advice above is very good, most importantly always build more units than you need, and have a diplomatic plan. Figure out which civs you're going to ally with (and remember your allies usually need to be friends with each other), adopt their religion, and do what they ask when you can afford it. Trust me, the first game you make Monty into your personal attack dog on a leash will be one of the most fun games you ever play.

    Still, it needs to be said that even with all the diplomacy and national defense tactics you can think of, sometimes somebody just needs to go. If I happen to start within 8 squares of Monte or Shaka, well, let's just say sharpening up a lot of axes and/or shoeing up a lot of warhorses is in my short term plans...
     
  12. Duelingground

    Duelingground AKA Gandalftheredskin

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
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    Location:
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Good advice in this thread, there are plenty of ways you can use the warmongers to your own advantage.

    I've just recently started playing on the Hemispheres map(which I really like), and have been picking a number of continents equal to half the total number of players. My pre-selected opponents are half warmonger, half builder. Most of the games end up with a builder and a warmonger each sharing a continent, leading to lots of early wars, and really bogging down the AI's progression.

    Using this setup, I just finished a Noble/SR game, wherein the AI's were just getting Infantry when I launched.
     
  13. BalbanesBeoulve

    BalbanesBeoulve Emperor

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    What I really hate is when they attack you but you don't even share borders. Usually the result of different religions.
     
  14. Silence101

    Silence101 King

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    Monty is one of my favorites - it's so funny when he gets mad... cracks me up!
     
  15. JTMacc99

    JTMacc99 That's a paddlin'

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
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    I don't mind the nutjobs, but a domination victory is not my style. (For one thing, it takes too long to manage all those damn units, and I play a lot on my laptop on the train, which means no easy mouse clicking.)

    I am a few moves from finishing off my very first Civ IV domination victory. I started this game with the specific goal of working on some things I learned about city specialization in these forums. Because of that, I set the difficulty level one below my normal, and set the map to large to give me more cities to work with (in theory.)

    Then, and this is why this is in this thread, I found myself (Romans, by the way) on a continent with Russia, and then all three aggressive civs in the game (Incan, Aztec, Mongols). I, of course, wiped out the peaceful Russians fairly early due to my huge advantage with the special units and a desire not to have them around when they got their nasty little UU. I made nice-nice with the Incans, who were immediately below me, and Ghengis Kahn who was on the far side of the Aztecs. There was simply no making nice with Monty. I was his equal, if not a little higher on the power graph and he still launched a couple stacks at me. He had a short period of success, followed by immediately being driven out and losing ever single unit in the process. He pleaded for peace about 0.3 seconds after I discovered Chemistry. He also virtually guaranteed his own doom at the hands of my cannons and riflemen shortly thereafter.

    Of course, once I was at peace with Monty, I ran over my friends the Incans, because they had some really sweet cities and it served to turn the entire Eastern half of the continent purple for me. By the time I was done with Monty, I had enough tanks to run over what was left of the Mongols, who had been at war with the Aztecs (at my request) for a very long time.

    In order to secure the domination victory, I cleaned up my new cities, built a bunch of transports and destroyers, and waited until I could upgrade a couple dozen city raider tanks into Modern Armor. I'm in the process of blitzing France right now, which seems appropriate somehow, and will secure the domination victory as soon as the revolts die down.

    It was a good learning experience. I have a better idea of how to efficiently run an offensive war now. I learned the power of bombers. (That whole thing where you order a dozen bombers to attack at the same time really makes short work of cultural defenses, doesn't it?) I learned the power of combining whichever Epic it is that cranks out military units with the Bureaucracy civic. 10 turns, 10 cannons. Heh-heh-heh, insta-stack. Combine that with a draft, and the military gets very strong, very quickly.

    On the other hand, I am wondering if it is a coincidence that I got dropped on the continent with all the aggressive leaders, or if the game is set up to do that to the human player.
     
  16. rabidveggie

    rabidveggie King

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    Apr 4, 2007
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    The computer is stupid, and those massive back stabbers are almost always backwards technologically. Go plant a few good defenders on a hill or in a forest and let the stupid idiots throw themselves against them. So long as they outnumber you they will usually oblige and you take no casualties. I've taken on 4-5 computers in numerous wars and managed to take ground while raping them, and that was a game that I decided to be peaceful, though I had a significant tech lead at that point so it was rifles vs lots and lots of cuirasseurs, maces, knights, cats, trebs, and some beserkers thrown in for good measure. Ended up losing though because while this happened the Greeks won a culture victory since all his neighbors were at war with me.
     
  17. BalbanesBeoulve

    BalbanesBeoulve Emperor

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    In my last game I declared war on shaka, took his capital and took peace. Then I flew in about 15 infantry and some bombers. After 10 turns i declared war again and had him throw his stack of doom at me. It took about 10 minutes to get through the whole stack, and I only lost 1 infantry, while he probably lost over 50 units, he had 30 grenadiers alone. Before this he was leading in the power charts by a lot, after, his power dropped to about half of mine. The war weariness was insane for me though.

    Getting rid of all that troop maintenance let him cut his research time for steel from 12 turns to 7, though.
     

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