AI reaches Liberalism in 25 BC - I'm puzzled...

[georgjorge]

On my latest Deity game (all standard settings), this got me puzzled. I didn't have much commerce, but was bulbing away towards Liberalism for Cuirassiers (I know, uninspired). However, I didn't get much chance to do it, because in 25 BC...


So I took a long look at the position of Dareios (who reached Liberalism), and...I don't know.

His land is not that good, especially not for cottages, and there's no gold or anything special:



He also didn't make strong use of his wonders - only Hagia and Collossus, and then Great Lighthouse, which is not overpowered with only five cities. So...how did he get there? No idea! It's not even a religious lovefest, with three religions split evenly between the six AI, and some tensions there for a long time. And I didn't trade him much either.

I guess he...just REALLY wanted it ; )

 

[lymond]

It can happen. Small AIs like Darius and Mansa, who are financial and great techers anyway, can do quite well with few cities. With Deity bonuses, their maintenance will be so low. So it really depends on how they focus things in a particular game. Sometimes even a strong techer might avoid Edu, but if they don't and Lib is open they will likely go right to it. You can check the AIs commerce output in the info screens as well. Darius is probably pretty high and, of course, I'm sure he bulb a coupla techs too along the way.

Conversely, most IMP leaders are generally considered the stronger of the AIs in the game. They expand fast, get a lot of cities, and are usually slower teching early-ish due to just bogging down for a while, but get really strong as the game progresses.

 

[georgjorge]

Thanks for the hints. I knew he was a threat with research, but not in the BCs.

He also was first to Paper via Theology (I think that's the path), at an absurdly early date. I got to Philo and Education first, but he followed me there right away.

 

[Qactus]

...
He also was first to Paper via Theology (I think that's the path), at an absurdly early date...

This is an important piece of information. I wonder if Darius maybe bulbed Paper in your game? Did he generate a GS right before it?
Paper is crucial in an AI's path towards Liberalism, since they usually do not prioritize it, but once they have it they tend to follow up with Edu-Lib right away. I don't know if it was ever confirmed by looking at the code, but @Seraiel had the theory, that AI are looking exactly two techs deep when deciding on their tech path. So before Paper they just see Paper-Edu, which by itself is not appealing enough to them. After Paper they suddenly "see" Lib behind Edu and race towards it. @Seraiel thus made sure to never give away Paper to the AI while otherwise trading freely in order to keep up with deity AI. He called it the Paper block.

 

[Ricci]

On my latest Deity game (all standard settings), this got me puzzled. I didn't have much commerce, but was bulbing away towards Liberalism for Cuirassiers (I know, uninspired). However, I didn't get much chance to do it, because in 25 BC...

Just one idea of how this happened: TT
.. the sole responsable of such absurd anomalies, the killer of realism.. obstructor for the need to develop proper economies.

 

[ArchGhost]

This is an important piece of information. I wonder if Darius maybe bulbed Paper in your game? Did he generate a GS right before it?
Paper is crucial in an AI's path towards Liberalism, since they usually do not prioritize it, but once they have it they tend to follow up with Edu-Lib right away. I don't know if it was ever confirmed by looking at the code, but @Seraiel had the theory, that AI are looking exactly two techs deep when deciding on their tech path. So before Paper they just see Paper-Edu, which by itself is not appealing enough to them. After Paper they suddenly "see" Lib behind Edu and race towards it. @Seraiel thus made sure to never give away Paper to the AI while otherwise trading freely in order to keep up with deity AI. He called it the Paper block.

You can see the AI's research targets, typically 2-3 techs away, using the Technology Advisor for that AI with the CRTL-Z cheat.

2 techs deep isn't really a hard rule, but it works for the era right around Education -- common targets are Edu>Economics, PP>Constitution, and of course, Edu>Lib. I've seen them queue up to 4 in advance and most of the time they are just picking techs one at a time instead of queuing, even if game events are dictating what they pick (i.e. AI at war will often go right to Rifling instead of meandering, but they don't often queue it up). Other high priority techs may see the whole line queued up such as Combustion, the AI will often queue up all of Combustion + Railroad + Steel or Steam Power.

 

[LEMD]

@ArchGhost can you explain what the CRTL-z cheat is? I have never heard of it.

 

[Bibor]

He called it the Paper block.

Interesting. Would building Sankore further disincentivize AIs to pursue paper?

2 techs deep isn't really a hard rule, but it works for the era right around Education -- common targets are Edu>Economics, PP>Constitution, and of course, Edu>Lib. I've seen them queue up to 4 in advance and most of the time they are just picking techs one at a time instead of queuing, even if game events are dictating what they pick (i.e. AI at war will often go right to Rifling instead of meandering, but they don't often queue it up). Other high priority techs may see the whole line queued up such as Combustion, the AI will often queue up all of Combustion + Railroad + Steel or Steam Power.

Am I right to presume that it's then safe to proceed to techs in the upper segment of the tree (for faster space times), or is the AI unlikely to trade these away? So far, I've seen AIs "hang on to" lower part techs for quite a few turns.

 

[georgjorge]

Thanks for your responses!

This picture kind of shows the Paper block in action...

475 AD on Deity, and nobody has bothered to research Paper yet, as I reached Paper and Education rather fast. It took another four or five turns until Darios got to Paper by himself.