AI really dumb at religions?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by PekkaM, Nov 19, 2005.

  1. PekkaM

    PekkaM Warlord

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    Well it seems so. I'm currently playing a huge balanced map with me as Persians leading the Hinduist bloc (seven top nations are all Hindu with 3-4 others hanging at the bottom). Hindu nations are all doing great while the rest few are constantly having fights among each other and some Hindus.

    Question: Why don't they convert?

    They have some random Hindu spread in their cities so they all could easily convert, build few missionaries and be where they were and have a bunch of new friends. Their sad little religions are only giving them enemies. I understand they don't like me and so I cannot ask them to convert but why not do it for themselves as a smart strategical move?

    Another point is that I have never seen another nations missionaries spreading to my cities. Now I like as many religions as possible in my cities most of the time since free religion is the way to go usually. If they want me to convert, why not spread some of theirs first? Also when they convert from no religion when they get first religion from me, shouldn't they start to spread it in their own cities? It's for their own good (and mine as well)!

    Well this leads me to how awfully AI generally manages it's culture but that's another topic...
     
  2. stormuzo

    stormuzo Chieftain

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    I've seen a lot of missionaries sneaking into my lands when I have open borders at Noble and Prince levels.

    Here's a thought, maybe they don't want to convert if they founded the religion and as such wouldn't they then loose their extra income and visibility to other towns where the religion has spread?
     
  3. Randle

    Randle Warlord

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    You get income from having a shrine for a rounded religion regardless of whether or not it is your state religion. You only get line of sight if you found it AND it is your state religion.

    The manual doesn't spell it out that way, but that's how it seems to work. Evidence by the fact that 1) When a build a shrine for a non-state religion my gold per turn increases and 2) when I adopt free religion, I lose all line-of-sight in foreign lands.
     
  4. asmodeus81

    asmodeus81 Chieftain

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    When I've converted another nation to my religion, even when they run one of the religious civics (organized religion or theocracy) they never seem to build missionaries to spread it at least around their own civilization to get the bonuses. I always end up being the one to do it, if I end up needing the shrine income or think someone else might convert them to a different religion. This is on Noble level. I did notice a few missionaries built by a nation that had a holy city for it, but they were really rare.

    I've also noticed they'll heavily favour a religion if they own the holy city. One game I didn't found any religions, so I took the holy city of my adopted state religion. The other civilization soon after switched to a different religion that they also had the holy city for (which I ended up taking from them later on anyway). It seems also to make them extremely stubborn, even if everyone else has a single religion, they would stick with the one they founded no matter no matter what I tried.
     
  5. Red Door

    Red Door Man of Mayhem

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    I convert one enemy city. Then the next turn it says "X Civ has converted to X Religion." The same one I just converted.
     
  6. Randle

    Randle Warlord

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    That's pretty common if it is the first religion introduced to their lands. If they already have a religion it will take a little more and if they have a holy city you're going to have to convince them it's worth giving up the benefits of the holy city of one religion to go with your religion.
     
  7. King Ash

    King Ash Chieftain

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    If the AI founds a religion they will prefer that one over anything else. No matter how much converting you do. To me its pointless trying to convert everyone. Unless you found like 5 religions or something. Which doesn't seem very fun to me.
     
  8. Dairuka

    Dairuka Prince

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    You still earn gold from Holy City Shrines, even if it's not your State Religion.

    One time I founded Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Confucianism, Taoism and Islam on Monarch. Then I converted to Buddhism. :D

    That was a super easy game. Won by Cultural Victory obviously. It was very peaceful as you can imagine that pretty much every civilization had Buddhism as their main religion.
     
  9. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    Correct.Even if you spread your religion in all their cities they still
    won't convert if they have a holy city of a different religion.
     
  10. minger

    minger Warlord

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    In my observations, the AI DOES send missionaries into your lands.

    In situations where an AI does not have a religion, and then you introduce it by converting one city, and then they adopt that state religion, they appear never to spread that religion themselves.
     
  11. 57%

    57% Complete

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    PekkaM: "Question: Why don't they convert? ... Their sad little religions are only giving them enemies."

    Whoa. Game context aside, that's one of the most unintentionally disturbing statements I've seen on this form... Well, that was the point of Civ,to recreate the world as you see fit.

    :p
     
  12. PekkaM

    PekkaM Warlord

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    I see your point ;)

    Anyway, I'd rather see AI play it smart than stubborn.

    The whole religion system is kind of flawed since their actual effect are none (the actual effect of having different religion that is). Basically it is just a system for getting AI pissed off at you. All the other negative effects have a real reason behind them that makes them affect human player as well, close borders and trading with enemies for example. Religions just make AI hate or like you while they realy don't matter to you. Maybe there should be some harmful effect (maybe added in patch?) for having a neighbour with different religion (this might get politically incorrect but some civil unrest shouldn't be too much :D)?
     
  13. Bast

    Bast Protector of Cats

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    In my current game it's just the reverse! When I found Christianity most of the other civs were following Buddhism/Confucianism and other religions. So far I've made contact with 14 other civs and 10 out of 14 have adopted Christianity as state religion. I was really surprised with this.
     
  14. Harald

    Harald Prince

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    I'm pretty sure that I have been able to convert the AI to my religion when he had the holy city of another. But I had to spread my religion to pretty much all of his cities and have very good relations with him to do it.
    I don't think his religion was that well spread in his own civ either.
     
  15. ranathari

    ranathari Glasses

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    I've never seen the AI actively spread their religion amongst the other players, although I've stuck to the three lowest difficulty levels so far. It is possible to covert an AI with a holy city of a different religion, you just have to ensure that you spread your religion to a sufficiently large enough proportion of their cities. They will only ever convert to a religion that has spread in one city if they have no other religion.

    Funnily enough, I tend not to use state religions in my games: I found religions and spread them as appropriate for the monetary income but I remain areligious because it makes diplomatic relationships across the board easier. I tend to go for the Free Religion civic anyway, unless there's a particular reason for me to adopt a religion (such as using Pacifism to increase GPP or Theocracy along with Vasselage in order to build up a strong military for a limited war).
     
  16. Royal

    Royal Warlord

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    I've only seen a missionary a few times (from AI) but never in my land.
     
  17. PekkaM

    PekkaM Warlord

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    Another game, I'm Hindu again (as always). Elizabeth converts to Hinduism after it randomly spreads to one of her cities. Judaism (also founded by me) spreads faster and she converts again. So I build a bunch of missionaries and spread Hinduism to all of her cities and ask what she wants in exchange for converting

    "Sorry can't do"

    Hmmm... So I hit enter to end turn and she converts :crazyeye:

    Smart move Elisabeth! :D
     
  18. nino.scibetta

    nino.scibetta Chieftain

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    I have a question...
    Why will other civs blame you for choosing a "wrong" religion but not for not choosing one at all? (this is my case : since i'm ranking first in my current game and i'm somewhat anti-clerical, i still refuse to convert...)
     
  19. ranathari

    ranathari Glasses

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    If you refuse to convert to their religion then the AI treats that as a refused request, just like if you refused to give them a tech for free. There's no penalty for not having a state religion (only that you'll find it harder to get positive relations with the AI which is balanced by making it easier to avoid extremely negative relations).
     
  20. nino.scibetta

    nino.scibetta Chieftain

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    Well this is another point... My point was precisely not to have positive nor negative relations with the AI for religious matters, because i can afford to refuse requests since the AI is too happy i don't crush it...
    I just wondered why having no religions at all is not referred as a pagan belief, which was the case in real life !
     

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