AI refusing gold per turn?

[malphigian]

I just recently started playing again since the most recent patch, and I notice I can never get gold per turn from the AI. I can pile up 3 techs and ask for 1 gold per turn and I get "Will Never Accept This" from my advisor.

Any idea what is happening?

I haven't broken any previous treaties, so its not that -- I used to get lots of gold per turns in the ancient era...

 

[Zouave]

Sheeeez.

No offense, but there are threads all over this site about how stupid the AI is. Don't look for logic with the AI. It is dumb and programmed to screw the human. That's why we all hate it.

Oh yes, I think the Civ 3 AI has surpassed even Jar Jar Binks for being hated.

 

[Bamspeedy]

This was changed in one of the patches to prevent 'tech whoring'. In the old days, you could get a tech lead than sell techs to the AI, basically taking all of their money, so they would go broke and have no money to do anything. Now, they set aside so much money to do their own research, and it is only if they have excess cash would they give out gpt payments. They usually don't have excess cash until they switch out of despositism.

 

[malphigian]

Thanks for the reply bamspeedy... that makes sense, it was that very strategy I was trying Prob. best they changed it, it was a bit of an abuse. I have noticed them willing to do gpt later on.

And, uh, thanks for the random rant Zouave, hope you feel better.

 

[eighty]

also the value of techs increase as they become more modern.

 

[Allemand]

They still don't have any cash.

 

[WillJ]

How come the AI sometimes won't pay 2 or more lump sum gold for an advance? They will have hundreds of gold, most civs don't even have the advance, yet for 2 gold "they would never except such a deal." Then I go to another civ and they'll pay the normal price! Maybe Zouave is right; the AI can be pretty dumb sometimes.

 

[MadScot]

Originally posted by willj
How come the AI sometimes won't pay 2 or more lump sum gold for an advance? They will have hundreds of gold, most civs don't even have the advance, yet for 2 gold "they would never except such a deal." Then I go to another civ and they'll pay the normal price! Maybe Zouave is right; the AI can be pretty dumb sometimes.

If you have been untrustworthy, the AI may refuse a lump sum for "per turn" deal.

They may be willing to do 5gpt for a lux, but not 50 gold lump sum.

The reason being the last deal you broke after one turn! After all, would you trust someone in those circumstances?

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by MadScot


If you have been untrustworthy, the AI may refuse a lump sum for "per turn" deal.

They may be willing to do 5gpt for a lux, but not 50 gold lump sum.

The reason being the last deal you broke after one turn! After all, would you trust someone in those circumstances?

Certaintly not! But lump sum gold for an advance is in no way a 20 turn deal. This makes sense if they weren't accepting lump sum gold for a luxury, resource, diplomatic agreement, but not an advance. And I'm pretty sure that I haven't been untrustworthy.

 

[Daaraa]

Also in terms of tech, if they are close to getting say Stealth, then they won't pay much. I never do if I'm just a couple of turns away and I'm not in desparate need for it. If you switch research halway through, you lose what you have accomplished.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by Daaraa
Also in terms of tech, if they are close to getting say Stealth, then they won't pay much.

Oh yeah, of course, I forgot about that. How silly of me.

 

[hbdragon88]

The AI is always broke so all the offer me is World Map and 20 gold. Sometimes they'll have 60 gold and offer me 60 gold + 9 per turn. I have advances that nobody else has but I can't understand why they never have over 2000!

 

[KDan]

I hate to disagree... I'm on an emperor game, huge map, and there's two civs I'm milking dry for the latest advances... for the last one I got 3000 from one and 1000 from the other... I guess tech whoring still works. I'm researching at 80% and running a deficit of 300+ gpt so I can get the research done in 5-6 turns/tech, but I'm still breaking even overall (and even making a tidy sum... I now have over 10k)... so some AI's definitely have money. Sure enough, those are the two biggest and most advanced on the map, and the others have sod all (but they're also backward so I let them stay backwards... and it looks like the other AIs are doing the same), but you can still make a killing selling tech, for sure

Daniel

 

[Arrian]

The AI tends to actually be able to afford things on the higher levels. Also, keep in mind they are always broke until they make the switch over to republic and build some marketplaces & libraries. I usually can start getting decent money out of the AI in the late middle ages through whenever the game ends (Monarch level).

Usually, if the AI "will never accept this deal" when you are trying to sell it tech for gpt, this means they literally cannot afford it.

If the AI refuses to sell YOU tech for gpt, that's a reputation issue.

Zouave:

Don't look for logic with the AI. It is dumb and programmed to screw the human. That's why we all hate it.

Rant all you want, but speak for yourself.

-Arrian

 

[Admiral Rimmer]

Related point : I've noticed on a few occasions when negotiating that the advisor will say that a tech I am selling for 15gpt should be acceptable, but if I up it or lower it, he says they will never accept this deal. Why? Why would it matter if I lowered my price, and why such a big shift in attitude? It has happened a few times, and I don't want to just put it down to a bug.

 

[Arrian]

Admiral,

Are you sure that lowering the gpt caused the change? You didn't change any other element of the deal? If not, that is indeed odd.

-Arrian

 

[Allemand]

The AI tends to get confused when you change the terms, especially when you give it a better deal. Then, upping or lowering brings a negative reaction either way. Have to clear the board and start over.

 

[civ_steve]

I find it difficult to get a good gpt trade from a commercial civ. Getting gpt from America has been worse than pulling teeth, in the handful of games I've played with them in it.

My most successful trade was trading Iron to Germany in GOTM9, for 111 gpt. He never broke the deal, so it lasted for probably 150 turns before I finished the game. He must have really wanted that Iron.

AI trading gpt is spotty. Catch them with the right circumstances and they'll pay through the nose. But they have to be able to afford it. A civ that's been at war for many turns probably doesn't have the gold to make a big trade; other circumstances can limit their offer.

And they can usually afford more than they offer, so don't be afraid to play with the numbers until you get what you want. And whatever you do, don't trade them an advanced tech on their turn; it'll be all traded out by the time your turn comes around. This happens when they cancel a trade (after the 20 turn limit) on their turn.

 

[WillJ]

And something else about gpt-for-tech trading is that often you can get more gold by asking for gpt instead of lump sum. For example, if the most they will except for a tech is 255 gold (which would be 12.75 gpt for 20 turns), they might except something like 14 or 15 gpt (which would total 280-300 gold after 20 turns). I assume most people already know this, but it's a good tip for newbies.

 

[KDan]

At the moment I got something like 200+ gpt from the japanese for some random tech I can't remember. When I started this the Americans had a stash over 10k, now they're broke and can't afford my tech anymore, which puts me in a tough spot because I'm worried they'll just demand it from me and I'm too busy building up my cities to fight right now...

Daniel