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[GS] AI smarter after recent update?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by codacman, Apr 9, 2021.

  1. codacman

    codacman Chieftain

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    Hello All,

    I am a total new member but an old player in CIV. I am a Deity player, typically playing Civ VI GS will all the recent updates and enabling Heroes, Secrets and Corporations as these are my fav modes. I recently noticed that AI is more challenging in pursuing victories , something that made me excited actually as it is (was) my main issue with Civ VI. Have you experienced, noticed the same?
     
  2. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Typical rant on Facebook and my answer:

    It is very possible that some AI make up their minds about the type of victory they want to pursue, and stick to their guns, pun intended. In your roll no one probably went for domination. Perhaps Ghandi told them "There is no shame in deterrence. Having a weapon is very different from actually using it. " so many times that they got discouraged... But seriously, when in doubt -- blame AI. Every oddity can be put on poorly designed AI tab.

    Also welcome to forums :cheers::band:
     
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  3. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

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    I’m lost on what this has to do with the original post :confused: He didn’t complain about the AI at all. Am I missing something?
     
  4. Alaindor

    Alaindor Chieftain

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    Well, I thought so too at first when approaching SV / RV victories on Deity / huge map / marathon with Arabia... Viet-Nam declared formal war and two turns later, came marching in my territory no less than 5 GDR's!... when I was still using mechanized infantry. I thought, this is it! But in fact, still 30 turns later, they are just taking a stroll around my cities, occasionally pillaging here and there but never attacked even one of my cities. I am still grating off 1 HP from them when my cities / barracks can shoot at them... other than that, they seem useless, the AI could easily have taken down 10-15 of my cities by now. So... disappointed over the lack of challenge here.

    I think Tigranes cited his own answer to another rant on facebook about the AI, as this answer is related to OP's question
     
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  5. TreVor_ish

    TreVor_ish Warlord

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    I would assume that AI is getting better with some updates, yes. They do seem to pursue victory conditions, yes. However feeling of falling in the last straight is still there.

    When choosing conditions for a game, it's usually the most optimal it can be, and restarting game because starting is rather subotpimal is a luxury AI does not have. So some will struggle.

    My last finished game, I chose to get a rather suboptimal Science Victory with Portugal on Massive Continents&Islands on Diety. (One would assume it's not that bad since some should have Harbors on coast - it wasn't - past 300 turns and I had only one city I could build feitorias in that would provide an international trade route. ONE. I also didn't have a lot of mountains and +3 Science was top I could get in one place, also did not get any Great Scientist that would boost Science from any building). One of the opponents was the Inca. They did excel in Science and had researched Nanotechnology before anyone else. I thought that's it, I lost since I just build my only one Space Port. Inca had Space Ports in 5 or 6 cities. After several more turns and getting into Smart Materials (4 more AI's already finished thier Mars Colony projects) I got lucky with Great Scientist that provided additional Production for Space Projects and was able to launch the Expedition, with Inca not doing so before me. I was really baffled that Inca despite being the most advanced suddenly stopped pursuing Science Victory and started to build land units (had enough visibility to see everything they build and they build a lot of armies of modern AT). So they didn't take that last step to win.

    As a side note. I still didn't see a single corporation made by any AI (did anyone?) I did only build one since I didn't want to win a cultural this time (would be done much earlier if chose to do so). AI also despite having some Industries still do not prioritize luxuries (some was still not improved, this also apply to strategics for some reason) and do build a lot of farms and mines and quarries. (with Corporation Mode on)
    The biggest challenge Diety has is getting past early aggression. (if it happens, that last finished game was probably won only because no one attacked me early on and barbs were rather easy to maintain)
     
  6. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    The overall AI performance has probably increased with each Civ update (a bit), but in the setup you mention I would like to emphasize what @TreVor_ish already mentioned - C&M is effectively broken for the AI, as they don't improve their luxuries to get excess copies. There is an entire thread about this:

    Are the AI upgrading luxuries/strategic resources after March patch? | CivFanatics Forums

    The other two modes you mention are also not ones the particularly AI shines in - Secret Societies has gotten somewhat better (Owls and Vampires were never troublesome choices for the AI, HO has been strengthened as choice and the weak Cultist AI, when Voidsingers are picked, has been improved from "no active use" to "fairly inefficient use"), but Heroes is still a complete sealed book for the AI (aside from fighting with them, the AI will just not use the Heroes abilities):

    [NFP] - Heroes mode and AI | CivFanatics Forums
     
  7. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Why are you lost? the title of the OP has a simple question: AI smarter after recent update?
     
  8. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    The short answer is NO.

    The AI is "better" in exploiting their huge frontloaded advantages and gains an initial science lead that was not there before, but then it does not know what to do with it. I can still beat it to the SV with only one SP, in Deity of course, and with good use of spies. The rest of their performance is as bad as always, if not worse given the horrible trade deal bugs that hinder the AI big time.

    I think we can safely assume that the AI in this game is done. Civ 6 will be the iteration with the worst AI in the series. As it is clear, at least to me, that they will not release source code either (and I have a good idea why), it is also safe to assume that there is no lifeline for this AI.
     
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  9. Conquistador_514

    Conquistador_514 Chieftain

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    My schedule doesn't allow for playing Multiplayer games and I play on Deity (first civ iteration that I could do that) I really don't consider myself an extremely good player because sometimes I pick the fun choices over the optimal choices but honestly I'm not sure how many more games of Civ 6 that I'll play at this point, one more after the April Update for sure but yeah.... I just require a decent challenge, I'm not asking for a master AI just not a mentally handicapped one.
     
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  10. darko82

    darko82 Emperor

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    Honestly, I would like to get a full refund. The AI in this game is worse than Cyberpunk 2077. I stopped buying and playing Civ games because of this.

    Mods fixed Civ V now, but the graphics is a bit outdated (I don't like it). Civ 1, 3, 4 were good to play (they were challenging enough at least).
     
  11. Conquistador_514

    Conquistador_514 Chieftain

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    I just don't get why they put all this energy into making the map more lively by adding districts and wonders to the map but made the AI so brain dead at going for victories and I really don't understand how the AI is so much worse than civ 5, like civ 5 was horrible AI because of 1 unit per tile but by now they should have been able to fix that, instead we get an even dumber tactical AI and absolutely no general strategy by the AI ( It doesn't know what it's even trying to do) The AI still can't use Aircraft properly (although It's way better than at launch), It uses hybrid units like Immortals and GDR's solely as ranged units and never captures cities with them, It can almost never take a walled city and just generally likes to suicide it's units so that after the ancient era they have no military left and need to hard build everything again but just throw their units out piece-meal to be annihilated. There was so much potential there but by this point I'm resigned to the very sad fact this will never be the game that it could have and should have been, and if they don't fix this one then I'm not bothering with civ 7, Hopefully Human Kind lives up to the hype.
     
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  12. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    I think I get it, and it's probably a mix of the "new" audience, and their own skills (or lack thereof).

    As for Humankind, I participated in the OpenDev (that's how you do it if you don't have anything to hide or fear), and at that alpha stage, the tactical AI was already eons ahead of Civ 6's... eons.
     
  13. Conquistador_514

    Conquistador_514 Chieftain

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    I guess that Civilization had it's time and now that time is gone, had a lot of fond memories over the years with it though, It's just too bad that it went so downhill after civ 4. Definitely going to try Human kind, but even then I'm going to wait at least a year before buying it and hope that most of the bugs are fixed.
     
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  14. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Could you please elaborate on trade deal bug? Describe it please.
     
  15. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Apart from the well known "how to make this deal better" button not working, which breaks many AI to human deals if the human is not willing to click a thousand times to find that better deal, one less known but notoriously bad is how cheap the AI sells their luxuries, which was not the case before. Now, I can consistently get ANY luxury from ANY AI for 1 gpt plus nickels, giving me free amenities while the AI drowns in discontent. Bad, very bad.

    Same happens with strats, but the other way around. The pay a lot of gpt (30-40 on standard) for a pack (20) of strats, even if they are already useless. Bad, very bad. Also not there before.

    Wars. That one is old. Surprise attack by that neighboring AI? No problem, bribe the entire neighborhood to atack him for 1 gold (not per turn, 1 Gold total) each. Bad, very bad.

    Shall I continue? Or is that enough for you?
     
  16. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Yes, I also brought this up in another thread, this really needs more attention. AI readily selling their luxes at 1-2 GPT in late game is really lame. How does such a bug even get introduced?

    Another fun AI anecdote: I just finished a game where Sumeria actually performed really well, they were tech leader and finished 3/4 of the space projects (and just started #4) by the time I finished my last project. So fun part is sometime during modern era, I get "Sumeria is no longer pursuing a religious victory." Weird, I thought, because they had not founded a religion. It was only then I noticed that Sumeria had actually recruited the last Great Prophet back in classical era, yet when the game finished in atomic era, they were 10 turns away from finishing their first Holy Site. I'm not saying focusing on Campuses instead of Holy Sites was bad strategy for Sumeria, but maybe they should have abandoned religious victory a bit earlier than modern era? :rolleyes:
     
  17. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    There are many; for my part I will list the issues around trading strategic ressources:

    (1) The limit of units of a strategic ressource they are willing to pay for varies from ressource to ressource and for Coal/Oil/Aluminiun 22 is rather low, IMO - you constantly see AIs running out of these ressources and even if you want to supply them it is tedius to only be able to sell them a few units per turn
    (2) The amount they are willing to pay for does not scale with gamespeed (which is bad, as they are e.g. not even interested in paying for enough Horses to built a new needing 60 on Marathon)
    (3) If you sell them a strategic ressource, solely the fact if they already have some units decides whether they pay the normal or doubled price - and that price per unit is applied then to every unit you sell (up to purchase limit of course)
    (4) If an AI has an amount of startegic ressources in their storage above what they would pay for, they sell you everything (e.g. AI has 40 Horses they will sell you none, but as soon as they have 41 all of them)
    (5) They pay excessive amount of Gold for Uranium, but the trading of this ressource has to be done in chunks of 4 units

    And as an unrelated "bonus": They often will pay you insane amounts (10.000 Gold and more are possible) for offers of a cooperative war.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  18. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    ... but accept 1 coin if you ask for it.

    Yeah, AI is obviously better.
     
  19. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Spoiler :

    I think this one was the absolute best I've ever got on a standard speed&size map. Don't pay gpt, single payments are cheaper. If they're friendly, it usually goes down to 27 g for a lux for 30 turns. Unfriendly ones may ask a bit more.

    And I don't think that's only a bug. I think the deals have been deliberately made so. Back then, soon after the release of the game, there were people crying that they could not get luxury trades 1 for 1. So after a while the devs obliged, and then they obliged some more, and then, at one point, maybe a bug got involved, and now we can enjoy almost free luxuries, if AI care to improve them. The only difficulty to get them through trade is coping with the terrible UI.
     
  20. darko82

    darko82 Emperor

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    Firaxis cannot make a decent (working) AI for over 13 years! It just doesn't work. This is ridiculous! Shame. I already lost any interest. In fact, they never could do it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021

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