AI spawning too close

[burticus]

Vox 4.14.1
I have started 15 new games in a row, usually on large maps with only 8 civs (instead of 10) and 16 city states. Every single game before I even get to turn 10 there's at least one AI civ knocking on my door. Last game I played yesterday I had 3 AI before turn 20. I don't remember Vox being like this. I've tried different maps and it doesn't seem to matter. I've played a million games where I can get to 30+ before finding a neighbor. So is this something new in VP? Is there a hidden setting somewhere to space the AIs out? I stand no chance if I am surrounded before I can even get monument and shrine up, much less another city or 2.

edit - I went down to 4.7.3 and I had AI on me in turn 2 on a comunitas large map. I'm going back to 4.5.1 to see if that makes a difference. Also I'm only playing on Prince if that matters

 

[burticus]

turn 10 on this new one

edit - another at 30. I am not finding them, they are finding me. I'm too busy fighting off the stupid barbs

 

[vetox20]

I play on warlord. Both communitias and standard continents. I have noticed over the versions I've had to rush settlers more and more to try and get a prime second spot. I assumed it was just a skill issue on my end (hence the warlord). But I have the same feeling. Whether it's based in reality / versions is beyond me unfortunately.

 

[hokath]

These sorts of reports started appearing a bit before 4.5 iirc.
It's not really known why.

If you want a mapscript where you get a big space I can recommend Tectonic. It's actually too much for my liking.

 

[youngsteve]

I play on warlord. Both communitias and standard continents. I have noticed over the versions I've had to rush settlers more and more to try and get a prime second spot. I assumed it was just a skill issue on my end (hence the warlord). But I have the same feeling. Whether it's based in reality / versions is beyond me unfortunately.

I have been playing on Prince recently, but on both that level & the levels below you should nearly always go for Pyramids for the free settler, as the AI doesn't make that a priority & that usually puts you in place to get a second city before your rivals. Not always but most times.

 

[Circe]

Isn't this entirely because of this change to prevent civilizations on isolated landmasses? That's when I first noticed it(and the complaints)

Spoiler 4.5 changelog :

Map Generation
- Changed most area checks to landmass checks
Should fix most Terra-styled maps having all civs on one side of the biggest landmass leaving the other side empty
Continents-styled maps will fall back to Archipelago-styled civ placement if landmasses are too small, or Terra-styled if there's only one big landmass
Civs should never start isolated (alone on a landmass) in Continents/Terra-styled maps unless above fallback is triggered

Communitu can be somewhat random in its land distribution and continental divisions, so there often end up being sizeable amounts of land that are considered invalid for civ spawning. Personally I think isolation is only a problem when there's not even coastal access between civs, island spawns should be permitted.

 

[hokath]

Could be. @azum4roll

 

[burticus]

Isn't this entirely because of this change to prevent civilizations on isolated landmasses? That's when I first noticed it(and the complaints)

Spoiler 4.5 changelog :

Map Generation
- Changed most area checks to landmass checks
Should fix most Terra-styled maps having all civs on one side of the biggest landmass leaving the other side empty
Continents-styled maps will fall back to Archipelago-styled civ placement if landmasses are too small, or Terra-styled if there's only one big landmass
Civs should never start isolated (alone on a landmass) in Continents/Terra-styled maps unless above fallback is triggered

Communitu can be somewhat random in its land distribution and continental divisions, so there often end up being sizeable amounts of land that are considered invalid for civ spawning. Personally I think isolation is only a problem when there's not even coastal access between civs, island spawns should be permitted.

I don't always use comunitas, I have also tried continents and others. My current game the turn 2 AI (Darius) sneak attacked around turn 80 and while I held it off, it probably set me back a ton just shifting to war effort too early. Alexander to my south is leaving me alone for now but as soon as the south land gets populated I'm sure he will attack too, no where else to go. Too much jungle and mountains, and my random roll got me America which didn't help. TLDR this game is toast bc I am wedged between two other civs and this seems to be the norm with the last 15+ games I've played on VP.

 

[Hokiefan00]

I have seen this quite a bit over the last several months. The tectonic map does mitigate this, but I agree that there's almost too much space. I used to play Communitu exclusively, but this problem has me playing continents now, which is marginally better.

Part of the problem I often find is the AI searching around for a good first settling spot. Often moving really close to another AI...or me! I wish I had the modding chops to create a mod that forced everyone to settle in place on turn 1.

 

[azum4roll]

I have yet to see proof of any two players spawning less than 9 tiles from each other, which is the intended lower limit.

Personally I think isolation is only a problem when there's not even coastal access between civs, island spawns should be permitted.

I want to do this, but there's no landmass definition that specifically includes coast tiles (but excludes ocean). If somebody can code that in the DLL?

 

[Alpharius]

set me back a ton just shifting to war effort too early.

Turn 80, too early... Are you playing on Epic/Marathon? That seems way too late for Standard speed

Hm, I don't have the same spawning issues on my end, I play on Comminutu and Tectonic map regularly. Maybe try tweaking map settings? I set low sea level on Communitu, and more land/less plates on Tectonic. Standard size/10 Civs/20 City-States and I often have a lot of space to expand.

 

[K_away_0514]

I have yet to see proof of any two players spawning less than 9 tiles from each other, which is the intended lower limit.


I want to do this, but there's no landmass definition that specifically includes coast tiles (but excludes ocean). If somebody can code that in the DLL?

Is there any way to increase the lower limit?

 

[Nightmare Dusk]

Is there any way to increase the lower limit?

If irc, increasing to 10 or more causes crashes where the map generator fails on meeting the requirements. Granted, that was a year or two ago, so idk if that's still the case

 

[msw1]

If you want civs to be more spread out, just decrease the number of civs in the game. Sometimes if I want a peaceful start, I'll play on a Huge map but reduce the number of players to 8.

 

[y10]

I am playing on an older version, but I seemed to have this problem on the large islands map type and on no other map. I've always been confused as to why this seems to happen on that map.

 

[azum4roll]

We have Large Islands for VP. Your version probably predates that.

Actually even if you use the vanilla Large Islands map in the current VP version it should still work fine (with Archipelago placement).

 

[Agiwan]

It started with 4.x.x, I didn't had this problem on 3.10.14

 

[K_away_0514]

If irc, increasing to 10 or more causes crashes where the map generator fails on meeting the requirements. Granted, that was a year or two ago, so idk if that's still the case

I don't really mind crashes tho

 

[burticus]

I have been playing on Prince recently, but on both that level & the levels below you should nearly always go for Pyramids for the free settler, as the AI doesn't make that a priority & that usually puts you in place to get a second city before your rivals. Not always but most times.

Pyramids on the first city? I can't even get monument and shrine up before being harassed by AI and barbs.

 

[burticus]

started a new game, back to 4.14.1. prince, large map, continents plus, sea level low. AI # down to 8, 16 CS. I also manually picked passive AI civ's as one of the comments mentioned. Turn 14 Egypt was knocking on my front door while my troops were away fighting barbs, I didn't even see his scout coming it walked right up to my only city.

turn 34, second AI pops up out of nowhere.

Also, I do not have raging barbs enabled, but it seems like they are freaking everywhere!