1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

AI suddenly and massively declare a war. WHY?!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bulka, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. Flexmaster

    Flexmaster Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    55
    I've seen this in my current game. After centuries of America and Germany being friendly with me they suddenly denounce me but their status remained FRIENDLY. I think I know why they denounced me and that's because the Iroquois had finished rolling over other civs on their continent and had now set their sights on America and Germany. America and Germany wanted me to join in and declare war on Iroquois but there was no way I would do such a foolish thing when the Iroquois have nukes and all I have are Riflemen.
     
  2. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,316
    The problem is there are no Ultimate game rewards for long-term cooperation.

    The First thing that is needed is a Shared Victory ability (see Permanent Alliance in Civ 4... or the Alliance suggestion in the Suggestions Thread).. because that is the only way long-term cooperation would work.

    The Second thing that is needed is more short-term benefits for peace... right now its
    Resource Trades
    and
    Research Pacts

    That's it..Resource Trades are worse than taking the territory yourself.
     
  3. Yoshiegg737

    Yoshiegg737 Jungo Jungo

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,587
    Location:
    Canada
    1. Most likely, you had one enemy (that you knew of, or didn't know of) and he/she probably rallied a bunch of different civ's to attack you. You were probably far too powerful

    2. There are no signs. Get your military up and get rid of them before they get rid of you. The wars in Civ5 isn't as hard as the wars in Civ4. I found it very easy to counter-attack and managed to eliminate a civ when I was simutaniously attacked by 8 civs

    3. Watch the civ's outside your borders; they are normally the ones who started the war in the first place. Try and have your buddies hate one other civ. You can't make friends with everyone on the map so just try for a small group

    You forgot "One less Civ to deal with"
     
  4. SpearMan153

    SpearMan153 Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia
    I agree I think its bugged.

    Seems civ5 has a good concept that doesn't work at the moment.
    Its something that could potentially one day work really well for both types of civ players - challenge/strategy players and roleplay/sandbox players

    from a strategy point of view you don't want the ai to sit back and let you win

    from a roleplay point of view you don't want silly dow from your friends just because you are about to win. but for a role play point of view, I think it does makes sense for some civs to get jealous at your success


    what I'd like is to see the ai form alliance blocks around the lead civs (like usa vs russia in cold war).

    as you approach victory more peacful focused civs could go all passive agressive on you. give you bad trades, buy out your city states, stick some extra units close to your border to make you nervous, call you names - and go for the quickest peaceful win. this would then be more like a national pride/cold war/space race situation than WWIII.

    Warlike civs would plot your death, and try to start the dogpile (like they do now). and position their nuclear sub around your capital of course.

    civs that are not contenders for victory would then align with those that are (like for a team win/partial victory cause my alliance won even though I wasn't the best).

    so as you approach victory ai civs are either awed by you success and want to suck up, fear you and want to suck up or get jealous and either go passive aggressive or outright war.
     
  5. zerotwo

    zerotwo Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Delta, BC
    Same deal for me.

    Here's a little ditty about a game I recently abandoned due to WTF factor 5:

    I'm at about 500 BC as a Rome, an ally and I committed to a war together and conquered a civilization between the two of us. My military is strong, I have five cities, but there are still three players on this Pangaea map I haven't met yet and I haven't seen a "pointiest sticks" popup yet. I've only built two or three wonders.

    So my relations with my ally are very good, we are trading up a storm, pact of friendship, research deal in progress, open borders, I even gave them a luxury when they asked for it. BFFs right?

    The bulk of my military (60-70%) are off somewhere else exploring or killing barbs, I luckily locate a land bridge between my half of the pangaea and the other half, this is a critical strategic point so I rush-buy a settler and have him boot it to the bridge. I send a scout across and set up some basic relations with the first civ on the other side.

    I get my settler in position and settle, instantly:

    My ally declares war on me along with the new civ. I swear a little, save my game and decide to give up, I hit next turn for sport and meet another civ who immediately joins the war against me.

    WHY!? I could probably win after a long and bloody conflict, but I don't want a long and bloody conflict against most of civs in the game, I didn't even want to do a domination victory! Seems like I am always forced into domination, so stupid. I see a local civ I have worked well with and think "ahhh, someone to cover my back and help me grow." and apparently all they see when they look at me is a a jumble of estimates trying to reach a value of 10 which correlates to "declare war".
     
  6. Liborio

    Liborio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Portugal
    So true. I actually like many things about CiV but the way the AI sooner or later just gangs up on you despite having good relations really puts me down, totally breaks immersion. Even worse is the fact that the whole world goes from friendly to successive DoW's against me in 4/5 turns, makes no sense.

    And this denounce concept while good in theory, only made things worse as every other civ out there now gets a "A friend found reason to denounce you" after your best friend goes insane and denounces you out of the blue, which will then cascade into more denounciations with the eventual war against everyone else just 5 turns away.
     
  7. Raneman

    Raneman Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    Tip: If you're in a large game, simply denounce everyone. Instant World War! Ta-da!
     
  8. Kyroshill

    Kyroshill Huh?

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    642
    I hate to tell you... but the AI doesn't "always go domination"...

    At the beginning of the game, there is a die roll (no doubt weighted by civ) that determines what victory condition each civ will attempt....

    I've seen many times when civ builds only 1 settler.... and then wonderspam.... how is that domination? Seen this from France, India, Siam, and even Germany :eek:

    I've been beaten to a science victory by Hiawatha.... his rocket took off and I was still building....

    Siam, Greece, and sometimes Rome likes to go diplo.... they'll ally all the CSs then go to war to protect them....

    But frequently, when it becomes apparent that you will beat the AI to a win.... they often fall back on conquest.... yes, just like the player would do.... but THAT's how you play the game!!

    Now I'm going back to my game where I'm trying to force my way thru a chokepoint to take Kyoto... then i need to go after Temujin... it's turn 98 and he has 11 cities!!! Settlers are coming out in pairs!! LOL
     
  9. Nares

    Nares Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,631
    Using an old patch?

    Have you been engaging other civilizations in pacts or declarations/denouncements? I actually think the old system was better once you became familiar with it, but I don't get to play with it anymore.

    What I've noticed of the new declarations/denouncements is that they're tailored only to stimulate the AI. Engaging in them is worthless for the human; they hint at the concept of triangle diplomacy, but there's nothing substantial to back it up and the player only generates ill-will by getting involved.
     
  10. Mano3

    Mano3 King

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2003
    Messages:
    755
    Location:
    Soprano in Alabama
    I noticed a big difference between Warlord and Prince. On Warlord, the AI seems 'normal', if not passive. I switched to Prince and it went crazy. Thousands of years of peace, then the entire world coming after me. I'd fight them off and there'd be peace for a bit, then world war again - rinse and repeat...

    It's as if being nice to a rival civ just doesn't matter. I miss the strategic alliance options...
     

Share This Page