AI Tech Push (Emperor Diff. Up) Post renaissance/Industrial

[fat_tonle]

I usually play a small map (quick speed), below standard with 14-18 Civs to minimize AI expansion and late game lag issues with my computer (a reason aside from strategy).

Just a general question... it seems whenever I play emperor up, I am dominating early in the tech department. Get the Oracle early, Library and Aesthetic Wonders if I have the resource accompanied with them, otherwise the basic stone wonders. Then lightbulb to Theology and MAYBE Divine Right. Most definitely liberalism late, adding Nationalism (and the Taj with Marble) or even Astronomy. Go to Free Religion to get 10% bonus if I have enough religions in my country. Occassionally jump out as first Civ to Physics and/or Economics first if I am rolling. Get my Universities and Observatories up immediately, maybe holding on to Organized Religion Civic to boost build time before going to free religion (otherwise Reinassance buildings can take forever). My tech is at the highest % allowed by my economy throughout the game. So I think I can play for space race or an easily military victory in the late game with superior tech, with early Destroyers and what not... WRONG!!!

So... there is one game where every possible scenario above played out in that manor. Keep in mind I NEVER traded tech to the AI at any point unless I get the maximum value and rarely traded with AI's at or near the point lead unless I absolutely needed a given tech. Liberalismed to Astronomy with Scientific Method (aided by Great Scientist) shortly thereafter... I test the market with my new tech and everyone is just starting those reinassance techs, while I have Printing Press, Nationalism and Astronomy and close to completing the respective buildings attached with them.

Anyways, I get Economics, send my Merchant on a Great Mission, boot my reserve to 15 Large. Physics took a whopping 10 turns but I get the additional scienstist. Most techs were taking me 7-8 turns even with the science buildings added. Keep in mind the map is small, so I only have maybe 3-4 cities with decent population, but the next best civ pretty much has 4 cities tops, MAYBE 5 if he has one on a little island off the mainland. Anyhow, I finish my Physics tech eventually and again test the waters, and I am suprised that the tech lead I thought I had has nearly vanished, and I am only up because of my Liberalism bonus.

Then... here it is, NOT FIVE turns after finishing my next tech following Physics, I swear on my mother's life, I check back with Mansa Musa... the guys got freaking, Steel, Military Science, Steam Power, Rifling. All in the span of 10-15 turns and the guy only has like 3 freaking cities. What kind of bull **** is that? I get that it's a challenging difficultly mode and the AI gets the research bonus, but it's ridiculous. THen I can only play for Cultural victory at that point. The ONLY occassaion where I can play for Space race is if I conquer another civ in my proximity early on, and build a 2-3 MAJOR CITY advantage on the next best AI. This is the only victory I can seem to acheive. Same **** happens every time. I have lost interest in the game because of this. I can go back to an easier mode but I lose interest once I start dominating. They need to do some things a lot differently in Civ 5 to make the game more flexible. It's a great game, but I probably overdid it and got tired of it, because I just never seem to break that hurdle at that point in the game.

 

[Shurdus]

The AI can trade like mad amongst themselves sometimes. Also the later in the game the bigger bonusses the AI get.

If you are in the lead by that much you should really consider knocking the competition clean out. I have seen games where I seemed very comfortable only to get beaten to launch because se AI can really step it up a notch or two near the modern era. Also they can trade whjere you as tech leader cannot. The can maybe grab 3 techs with teching and trading while you rake in the techs one at a time.

Some of the AI barely defend themselves, others do with weak units. Getting the fight to them is really the way to go in these cases. You do not want to find yourself in situations like you find yourself in. But if it is encouraging, I found myself in a game today where I could just squeeze in 6 cities while Kublai Khan and Sitting bull nextdoor had 9 eack. I meet the other continent and that one persian dude has a wooping 17 cities whereas everyone else had maybe 7 or 8... this was on a standard map.

I knocked out SB and KK on my landmass and took the fight to everyone but the persians. I conquered the UN and vassalised pretty much everyone. Vote comes up... Guess who won a diplomatic win before the persians could launch?

What I am saying is that you should not get discouraged. It may seem hopeless of unfair of the AI to power-tech like that, but then again it is emperor+, you should prepare and expect things like that by then.

 

[tinstaafl]

The ONLY occassaion where I can play for Space race is if I conquer another civ in my proximity early on, and build a 2-3 MAJOR CITY advantage on the next best AI. This is the only victory I can seem to acheive. Same **** happens every time. I have lost interest in the game because of this. I can go back to an easier mode but I lose interest once I start dominating. They need to do some things a lot differently in Civ 5 to make the game more flexible. It's a great game, but I probably overdid it and got tired of it, because I just never seem to break that hurdle at that point in the game.

Well, to be fair, your settings (a really crowded map) seem a good bit unusual to me. Considering the AI bonuses on emperor, i'd say it is to be expected that some financial civs like Mali would pull ahead of you at some point if you don't get at least some advantage in the number of cities. I for one can not usually win a space race on emperor if i don't take out at least one civ either (except with financial leaders). And that's on a noncrowded map. Perhaps the crowding somehow amplifies it, though i'm not sure how.

 

[fat_tonle]

The AI can trade like mad amongst themselves sometimes. Also the later in the game the bigger bonusses the AI get.

If you are in the lead by that much you should really consider knocking the competition clean out. I have seen games where I seemed very comfortable only to get beaten to launch because se AI can really step it up a notch or two near the modern era. Also they can trade whjere you as tech leader cannot. The can maybe grab 3 techs with teching and trading while you rake in the techs one at a time.

Some of the AI barely defend themselves, others do with weak units. Getting the fight to them is really the way to go in these cases. You do not want to find yourself in situations like you find yourself in. But if it is encouraging, I found myself in a game today where I could just squeeze in 6 cities while Kublai Khan and Sitting bull nextdoor had 9 eack. I meet the other continent and that one persian dude has a wooping 17 cities whereas everyone else had maybe 7 or 8... this was on a standard map.

I knocked out SB and KK on my landmass and took the fight to everyone but the persians. I conquered the UN and vassalised pretty much everyone. Vote comes up... Guess who won a diplomatic win before the persians could launch?

What I am saying is that you should not get discouraged. It may seem hopeless of unfair of the AI to power-tech like that, but then again it is emperor+, you should prepare and expect things like that by then.

Yeah well my military is crap most of the time because I am going for economy buildings and wonders. Otherwise I can't even maintain the tech up to reinassance. Sometimes I still have a single warrior in each city near the modern era if I know I won't get attacked. When I go for conquering I need that decisive tech advantage because if the war goes on for more than 10-15 turns the revolts start and my economy collapses. And as soon as the AI hits a given tech, Feudalism, or Rifling, 3-4 Longbowman or Rifleman with double city defense pop up on the screen in each city, so it's hard for any kind of decisive victory. And the Cultural Border advantage is ridiculous. I took out Wang Kong who was on the opposite continent... pump my money into theatres, libraries, Universities, still can not dent the cultural border. Finally an invasion where I took three cities (including his capital) left me with only one at the end after they revolted to neighboring empires. Ended up losing the game by one turn to Joa on Space Race btw... Is there buildings I can minimize? For example, can I skip over Grocers if I don't get the health bonus attached with it or do they make the difference in economy?

 

[tinstaafl]

Finally an invasion where I took three cities (including his capital) left me with only one at the end after they revolted to neighboring empires.

This, for example, may just be a direct result of the crowded maps. All of your conquests are likely close to very well developed cities of the neighboring empires you mention, so that would make it harder to hold on to them compared to how it would be with the normal number of opponents for the map.

Ended up losing the game by one turn to Joa on Space Race btw... Is there buildings I can minimize? For example, can I skip over Grocers if I don't get the health bonus attached with it or do they make the difference in economy?

If you only have 4 cities you probably are not paying much maintenance and are probably running a high slider setting, so yes, if most of your commerce goes into tech, markets, grocers and banks are comparatively useless, shrines or rushbuying strategies aside. They start getting more useful the bigger your empire gets, whereas libraries and universities lose usefulness then.

 

[tmd171]

Yeah well my military is crap most of the time because I am going for economy buildings and wonders.

Sounds like you are a little of a builder. Most, if any, buildings are necessary to win games. Land and units are often neglected by many civ players in order to go after the shinies, wonders and +50% multiplier buildings etc. Production cities need very few buildings to be effective, grocers/banks/universities are mostly useless in these cities because the science/commerce multipliers only add very little. You also need to think if you actually need the wonders you are building. Wonders, especially early game when you dont have a lot of hammers or cities, take up a lot of hammers that could be diverted to settlers/workers/military. I got a lot of help from one of TMIT's threads when I was moving up to higher difficulties, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=352705. He takes an extreme approach to the lack of buildings strategy but manages to win games at immortal.

 

[fat_tonle]

I'm gonna try minimizing the number of Civs... maybe go to 10 on small map. I am having success on empereror in a game today but I will probably lose to space race... unless I can pull something out of the bag or just pump into culture but that gets boring.