madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Has anyone noticed the AI techs alot faster in BTS 3.13 than 3.03 with solvers unofficial patch. I can still play on Monarch (so it is still slower than warlords IMHO) but Emperor is real tough.
AI tech speed in BTS 3.13
- Thread starter madscientist
- Start date
I didn't play a lot with 3.03, but noticed the AI tech rate was awful. Now I've played a few games with 3.13/Monarch, the tech rate seems better, but there's still something fishy going on imho. In my Darius game, I got a awesome start with 2 AIs on my continent, crushed Roosevelt and hit Optics in around 900AD. What I found out that I was way more advanced than the rest 6 civs, and iirc one civ didn't even have alphabet yet! That's kinda slow ain't it?
In my first 3.13 game I noticed 2-3 AI civs were really slow at researching Agriculture, which is kinda basic tech after all...
I admit I got a very favorable start with Darius, but no alphabet at 900AD sounds really bad tech rate to me.
Are things different on Emperor?
PS. I use "No Tech Brokering", does that affect the AI tech rate a lot?
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
What I am seeing is philosphy being taken with the oracle by an AI in like 500BC. Other messages that I cannot remember.
I think it's fine for them to tech faster, just makes me be more realistic that I still need to really conquer/win more at Monarch before I move onto emperor.
I defeinitely cannot wait on liberalism to get something like democracy anymore. I take the standard prinitng press/nationalism/astronomy like I did in warlords.
I do not use the "no tech brokering" so I cannot answer that one.
I play Aggressive AI so tech pace is slower in my games, but tech speed is more dependent on leaders and how liberal you are with your trades. Oracle is the most annoying thing ever invented, AI's routinely slingshot Feudalism with it in the 1000 BC's (not funny). I've had Mao do this a couple of times, (he techs ridiculously fast even with his crappy traits) so i try for oracle almost every game now just to keep it out of the hands of an AI. (fighting protective longbows with only catapults.... 
can wreck the game)
You still will get slow games now and then, and as long as you focus your efforts on a military solution on the techers you will do fine. And i think the AI's don't shop techs around that much anyway so "no tech brokering" should harm you as much as them.
can wreck the game) You still will get slow games now and then, and as long as you focus your efforts on a military solution on the techers you will do fine. And i think the AI's don't shop techs around that much anyway so "no tech brokering" should harm you as much as them.
Hmmm... I have different experience, at least from my Darius game, 3.13/Monarch/Non-agg AI/No Tech Brokering.
I don't remember the dates, but I built the oracle and got CoL, built GL and got bulbed Philo with GS, most likely will find 4 religions after I get DR first, have built a few wonders (Colossus and Parthenon at least) and will most likely get AP too (which hasn't been built yet, it's 900AD). And all these I've managed to do quite easily with many blunders along the way. The start was awesome with 4 gold mines running with the first 3 cities, and gems nearby, but I think the AI hasn't performed really well in my game this far.
Anyone have any experience on No Tech Brokering affecting the AI? It seems it might be on reason for slower AI teching.
Oh ok that's good, I really like to keep ntb-option tagged
I think my game may be a freak example of a good start position and a bunch slow teching AIs... at least I hope so!
Wish I had time to play more to prove my point
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
I play Aggressive AI so tech pace is slower in my games, but tech speed is more dependent on leaders and how liberal you are with your trades. Oracle is the most annoying thing ever invented, AI's routinely slingshot Feudalism with it in the 1000 BC's (not funny). I've had Mao do this a couple of times, (he techs ridiculously fast even with his crappy traits) so i try for oracle almost every game now just to keep it out of the hands of an AI. (fighting protective longbows with only catapults....
You still will get slow games now and then, and as long as you focus your efforts on a military solution on the techers you will do fine. And i think the AI's don't shop techs around that much anyway so "no tech brokering" should harm you as much as them.
The AI going after the oracle certainly makes it interesting, Fuedalism huh. Gotta watch out for that.
I do not use the agressive AI mostly because I don't want to have to worry continually about military buildup at the cost of a good building opportunity.
I am playing Victoria and cottage spamming like crazy on grasslands to keep up techwise. I have about 8 cities already including the buddhist shrine that I took from Isabella. I have to keep the military up (getting hard) since I have a cramped Louis XIV who I don't trust and a tech happy Gandhi, both are significantly higher in the power numbers. Plus there is a lone AI going nuts in tech. Pericles is in the mix so I guess I have a bunch of non-financial tech/wonder monsters in this game (Isabella aside).
I think I will conside the agressive AI option in my next game (napolean due up for me). I just hate to be trapped into always domination/conquest games.
Aggressive AI doesn't mean you have to win by conquest/domination. Just means you can't have a standing army consisting of only warriors.
And the AI can be a much bigger threat to both you and each other (which is the fun part isn't it?) With Aggressive AI off, the tech speed shoots through the roof because thats the number one priority of the AI's in those games. Given difficulty bonuses and the Better AI upgrade (makes AI tech path more clever) it's not surprising you feel the tech pace getting out of hand.
Oh and I've done both Diplomatic and Cultural wins with Napoleon actually
(you don't have to do a certain strategy depending on traits either
)
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Aggressive AI doesn't mean you have to win by conquest/domination. Just means you can't have a standing army consisting of only warriors.
With Aggressive AI off, the tech speed shoots through the roof because thats the number one priority of the AI's in those games. Given difficulty bonuses and the Better AI upgrade (makes AI tech path more clever) it's not surprising you feel the tech pace getting out of hand.
Oh and I've done both Diplomatic and Cultural wins with Napoleon actually
(you don't have to do a certain strategy depending on traits either
OK, that's good to know. I prefer to play the game as the situation arises. Likewise I have won space victories whith Ghengis Kahn and domination wins with Gandhi. Perhaps I'll even tank my current Vicky game tonight and start a new one with her using agressive AI.
I hope the AI tech pace would get out of hand in my games too
Thats easy
Just crank up your difficulty level
Indiansmoke
Deity
I have finished 2 games with BTS 3.13 so far. I play Emperor normal settings - map size etc.
In both games there was 1 AI more advanced than me (missed Liberialism both times) but there were also 2-3 really backward ones.
I managed to win the second game with a close space race.
So so far I don't think the AI techs teribly slow, it might be slower than warlords but now they are much smarter with sneak attacks so you have to build more units and watch your back more (ie you tech slower as well, or risk a sneak invasion)
In both games there was 1 AI more advanced than me (missed Liberialism both times) but there were also 2-3 really backward ones.
I managed to win the second game with a close space race.
So so far I don't think the AI techs teribly slow, it might be slower than warlords but now they are much smarter with sneak attacks so you have to build more units and watch your back more (ie you tech slower as well, or risk a sneak invasion)
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i don't play Agg AI, i don't play no tech trading/brokering, and 89% of the time i prefer to be involved in as few non-phony wars as possible. i played one Agg AI game pre-3.13 and the AII tech rate was ridicuously slow. add in that the map gave me a golden starting position so they were bickering with each other but couldn't reach me easily to slaughter Candyland. the game got to be boring and i never finished it. so those are the "disclaimers, apply salt if that's not your style."
my current 3.13 game, bhruic's patch, i had an isolated start and the AI tech pace has been fast enough to be exciting. i got to steal two techs from zara, fun fun!
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
To followup, I tried playing with agressive AI and upped the difficulty to emperor. What a greta combo, tech pace is reasonable and I have to keep on my toes regarding military. Definitely more wars and less tech which balances it nicely.
Thanks for the suggestion, this levels everything in my games.
Thanks for the suggestion, this levels everything in my games.
PericlesOfAthen
Consul
I think I'll have to try that. I tried to play two emperor games with BTS 1.02 but I was getting killed by maintenance/economy issues and the AI was teching ahead. I didn't finish the either game cause 3.13 came out and both were continents; one with only Stalin as my neighbor and the other with Darius and Churchill. Darius I early rushed and killed off but then I was crippled by the maintenance and Churchill wouldn't tech trade cause only the two of us.
shyuhe
Deity
The high level AIs are pretty slow up through about economics/printing press/democracy. After that, they ramp up in tech speed like mad and will generally out tech you unless you have better land or get them to war and slow them down. It's still quite possible to do long liberalism slingshots in BTS as you can get rifling and/or physics pretty easily.
I still think the BTS tech rate is slower than warlords...
I still think the BTS tech rate is slower than warlords...
