AIOJ01 -- America the Beautiful

I'm torn between 2 and 4. Generally I like to start with lots of grassland, but 2 has four turn settler factory potential. 2 is also near the middle of the map, so our scouts will be more effective at exploring. However, a postion near the S might be easier to defend on a pangaea map.

Decisions, decisions.... :rolleyes:
 
Zakharov said:
I'm torn between 2 and 4. Generally I like to start with lots of grassland, but 2 has four turn settler factory potential. 2 is also near the middle of the map, so our scouts will be more effective at exploring. However, a postion near the S might be easier to defend on a pangaea map.

Decisions, decisions.... :rolleyes:

I almost stopped when I generated #2. With all that food, we should have no problems turning that city into one heck of a settler pump. However, we are standing on floodplains, so we'd either have to move or risk disease. Also, we have no ideas if we have any luxuries close, but being in the center of the map lets us keep our capital pretty well centralized and as you said makes it easier to contact other civs.

#4 lets us settle in place, gives us the cow for food, BG and plains for shields and 2 chopping points for a speedier granary and whatever else we want to use the other chop for. Our next city can be a coastal one, so we can get a curragh out to find other civs along with our scouts if we want.

Those points are what sold me on 4.
 
If we take #4 I would definitely not settle in place, as there would be two wasted coastal tiles in the city radius. Depending on what the scout finds I would settle either 1E to be on the coast and get away from the tundra, or 1NW to keep the cow in the initial 9 tile radius.

We don't have alphabet as a free tech, so being on the coast is not vital as we can't build curraghs yet. I would therefore lean towards the 1NW option and let another city be a coastal city.

As for #2, I don't find disease in floodplains to be much of a problem. Maybe I'm just lucky with the RNG. :mischief: (I do find disease in jungles to be a problem though). We could always settle 1SE to keep off of the floodplains. However, I usually find that with a wheat on a floodplain the extra food more than compensates for any disease suffered.

One problem with #2 is the apparent lack of shields. Some hills nearby would be very nice but I can't see any. I know we could mine the plains and desert, but that would negate the benefit of having the extra food for only a few more shields.

Having thought about this some more I am leaning towards #4 as well. The major factor for me is that it is easier to defend a coastal postion on a pangaea map. A central position is far too easy for the AI to dogpile on.
 
Zakharov said:
If we take #4 I would definitely not settle in place, as there would be two wasted coastal tiles in the city radius. Depending on what the scout finds I would settle either 1E to be on the coast and get away from the tundra, or 1NW to keep the cow in the initial 9 tile radius.

We don't have alphabet as a free tech, so being on the coast is not vital as we can't build curraghs yet. I would therefore lean towards the 1NW option and let another city be a coastal city.

As for #2, I don't find disease in floodplains to be much of a problem. Maybe I'm just lucky with the RNG. :mischief: (I do find disease in jungles to be a problem though). We could always settle 1SE to keep off of the floodplains. However, I usually find that with a wheat on a floodplain the extra food more than compensates for any disease suffered.

One problem with #2 is the apparent lack of shields. Some hills nearby would be very nice but I can't see any. I know we could mine the plains and desert, but that would negate the benefit of having the extra food for only a few more shields.

Having thought about this some more I am leaning towards #4 as well. The major factor for me is that it is easier to defend a coastal postion on a pangaea map. A central position is far too easy for the AI to dogpile on.

Recognizing tile waste with city placement is something I am not good at yet, so you can be in charge of the dotmaps :)

I've always avoided setting on a flood plain as the RNG always seems to nail me for it. But, as you say, the bonus food from the floodplain wheat would make up for that. We could always mine the cow, but it would reduce the growth potential of the city. I might have to play #2 on my own :)

Any other opinions from the peanut gallery? I'd like to decide on a map so we can get this ball rolling.
 
Personally I don't like no2, nothing more frustrating than a city growing fast but waiting for that settler due to few shields which causes high lux rate only for disease to strike and knock pop points off for a few turns running, been there, done that.

4 with an initial movement looks great

ps what is a peanut gallery?
 
zurichuk said:
Personally I don't like no2, nothing more frustrating than a city growing fast but waiting for that settler due to few shields which causes high lux rate only for disease to strike and knock pop points off for a few turns running, been there, done that.

4 with an initial movement looks great

ps what is a peanut gallery?

Sorry, I'm full of weird sayings :) I am not sure where it's from, but it's a term for a group of people.
 
Zakharov said:
We don't have alphabet as a free tech, so being on the coast is not vital as we can't build curraghs yet. I would therefore lean towards the 1NW option and let another city be a coastal city.

Seeing as we're playing a pangea map, curraghs are virtually superfluous, anyway. Especially because we have scouts. I vote #4 and 1 NW, too.
 
Ok, let's get started with map #4. Please, feel free to comment on any moves. I am going to be pretty detailed in my turn sets, so any mistakes you make, please feel free to point them out.

Zakharov <-- Up
ChuckDizzle <-- On Deck
allin1joe
DaveShack
zurichuk

Zakharov, can you please post a dotmap after your turnset?
 
zurichuk said:
ps what is a peanut gallery?

It's a term for spectators, typically referring to the cheap seats where the snack of choice was peanuts. ;)


found this via google
 
allin1joe said:
Ok, let's get started with map #4. Please, feel free to comment on any moves. I am going to be pretty detailed in my turn sets, so any mistakes you make, please feel free to point them out.

Zakharov <-- Up
ChuckDizzle <-- On Deck
allin1joe
DaveShack
zurichuk

Zakharov, can you please post a dotmap after your turnset?

You can expect me to ask lots of questions. :) I had similar thoughts on start #4, either move away from the coast to make room or toward it to make sure all tiles are used. I thought about settling on one of the grapes to eliminate worker turns hooking them up, how does that apply on higher difficulties? Don't know the bonus values offhand, if grapes are +food then settling on them might not be a good idea. Most of what I've seen about Emperor says to do min research on a 2nd tier tech, is that the right move?

Is Zakharov playing the customary 20 turns to start? Also any problems with using CrpSuite MapStat in non-spoiler mode? I would be interested in capturing a complete set of autosaves to run through the stats program when we're done, if you don't mind zipping them up and sending to me.
 
ChuckDizzle said:
Seeing as we're playing a pangea map, curraghs are virtually superfluous, anyway. Especially because we have scouts. I vote #4 and 1 NW, too.
I didn't really think that one through did I? It shows how often I play with exp civs and scouts. ;) However, for non exp civs curraghs are still useful on pangaeas because of the 2 moves (3 for seafaring). Also, the majority of the civs will be settled near the coast.

DaveShack said:
You can expect me to ask lots of questions.
Good. Lots of strategic discussion is what I enjoy most about SGs. :)

DaveShack said:
I thought about settling on one of the grapes to eliminate worker turns hooking them up, how does that apply on higher difficulties?
I think the difficulty level is irrelevant, dealing with luxuries should always be the same. As for the wines, that is the one luxury that should not be settled on as I believe the bonus food is lost. The only reason to settle on it is if there is a group of 5 or 6 of them, or if the tile position is more important than the +1 food.

Having said that, I believe this would be one of those situations if not for our expansionist trait. The coast/river position would be more important, but in this case I will be heading 1NW (depending on what the scout sees).

DaveShack said:
Most of what I've seen about Emperor says to do min research on a 2nd tier tech, is that the right move?
Generally yes. If I have alphabet I would always do min on writing. However, we start with Pottery and Masonry so we do not have access to any second level techs yet. In that case I would usually go for alphabet at min and try to pick it up via trade. With the exp trait we may be better off going for CB (cheapest) at max and hope our scouts pop a better tech from a hut.

DaveShack said:
Is Zakharov playing the customary 20 turns to start?
I was intending to play 20, though I think I will post a screenie after a turn or two if our initial moves show something interesting.

DaveShack said:
Also any problems with using CrpSuite MapStat in non-spoiler mode? I would be interested in capturing a complete set of autosaves to run through the stats program when we're done, if you don't mind zipping them up and sending to me.
Do you mean any problems with spoiler mode? I have no objections as this isn't GOTM. Where should I send the zip file to?

Also, if any of the team don't have CrpSuite installed, I highly recommend you do. There is no way I could play at emperor level without it. I would not have the patience to check the diplomacy screens every single turn.
 
Agreed on CrpSuite being a must. I ALWAYS have MapStat fired up to ensure all towns are happy and check on my trading options.

As for the start, please do 20 turns. Feel free to pause whenever you wish to discuss things with the group. I check in to this forum often during work, so I love a SG with good discussion :) Just please make sure you post a screen shot for the discussion since, of course, I don't have access to the game at work.

As for the autosaves, you mean you want to capture the autosave after EACH turn, or after each set of turns? If you want them for each turn, please leave instructions on where to find the autosave for those of us who don't know where to look (like me :)).
 
The stats program will work best with autosaves from each turn. There
is a setting on CrpMapStat to save all the autosaves in a directory. It's the last field in this image, one way is to use a different directory for each game you play (can be hard to remember to change it though... think I'll make a suggestion to Dianthus on some renaming that could be done)


 
Ok but where do want the zip file sent to? (ie. an e-mail address?)
 
It seems like all opinions have been offered, so I will begin. :)
 
Sorry for the delay. I played my turns but got dragged away from the pc before I could write my log. Here it is:

4000(0)- I should note that the first thing I did was to change some of the game preferences. Please check these at the start of your turns and change them to whatever you like to play with.

Worker N to cow.
Scout W,W and finds nothing exciting.
Settler NW.

3950(1)- Scout sent to look for goody huts in a generally N direction.
Worker irrigating cow.
Washington founded > scout in 5.
CB in 15 @ max. I took the cheapest tech in the hope that a GH would give us a more expensive one.

3900(2)- Scout finds some nice land to the W, plus the coast.

3850(3)- zzz

3800(4)- Cow is irrigated, start roading.

3750(5)- Scout spots some gems.

IBT- Washington, Scout > Scout in 5

3700(6)- Scout2 is sent in a N then E direction.
Scout1 pops a GH - Maps.

3650(7)- Washington is size 2, luxuries to 10%.
Mining grassland.

3600(8)- Scout2 pops a GH - Maps.

3550(9)- zzz

IBT- Washington, Scout > Warrior (for MP and defence)

3500(10)- zzz

3450(11)- Washington's border expands.
Mined grass is being roaded.
Scout3 pops a GH - Maps, but spots a furs in the tundra.
Scout2 pops a GH - New York is founded!!!! > Warrior in 10. This town is next to incense.
Scout1 pops a GH - 25g.

3400(12)- Washington size 3, lux to 20%. Sci down to 50% for CB still in 2.

IBT- Washington, Warrior > Settler in 10.

3350(13)- Grass is roaded, worker moves to wines.
With an MP unit, lux is dropped to 10%. Sci to 20%, CB in 1.
I avoid a GH so I don't pop a tech before CB is done next turn.
Scout1 meets a Hittite warrior. We are up Masonry and down Alpha, CB + WC.
No trade as it's not a good idea to trade with the first civ met. Better to meet someone else and drop those monopoly prices.

IBT- CB > WC (cheapest for GH purposes, I will change when GH is popped).

3300(14)- Scout2 pops a GH - Mysticism. :)
I switch research to Polytheism @ min, as it is useful trade bait.
Irrigating wines.

3250(15)- Scout2 discovers ivory near the Hittite capital. :( Looks like they will be an early target then.

3200(16)- zzz

3150(17)- Washington is size 4. Luxuries to 20%.
MM the city for 5 food per turn. Growth in 4, Settler in 4.

3100(18)- Scout2 meets Mayan warrior. They are up WC, down Mysticism.

IBT- Mayans offer a trade, Myst for WC. No way! They will only turn around and give it away to the Hittites. We will trade when we want to thank you very much Smoke-Jaguar.

3050(19)- Wines connected. Luxuries to 10%.

3000(20)- Hittites have the Wheel.
Worker is mining a BG.

Notes:
Washington grows in 1, settler in 1.

New York gets a warrior in 1, grows in 11 (no grass).

Treasury: 89g, +8gpt, Polytheism in 44 @ 10%. This can still be boosted to max, but I don't think it is worth it.

We seem to have plenty of expansion room to the N and W.

The landmass seems to be one of those upside down horseshoe shapes. We will have to head N then E before we will meet everyone.

We are in reach of 4 luxuries. New York secured the incense and we are close to furs and gems (plus the wines). :thumbsup:

We are up Mysticism on both the Mayans and the Hittites. The Mayans have WC + 2 workers. The Hittites have Alpha, BW, WC and the Wheel + 20g. (We can't get those workers though).

I didn't trade yet as I wanted to meet more civs first. The team's thoughts on any possible trades?

In the image I have circled the luxuries and added four dots for possible cities. I think the blue one should be first as it has a sugar and some BGs. The green site should then be second. I assume this spacing is okay with everyone. My personal preference is to give cities just enough room to grow to size 12.

Roster:

ChuckDizzle - up next
allin1joe - on deck
DaveShack
zurichuk
Zakharov - just played

The image and the save:
 
I prefer cxxxc city placement as well. I LOVE the fact that we have so many luxuries so close. We couldn't have asked for a better starting position in that regard.

After the warrior, I'd suggest New York builds a worker.

Also, I think we need to decide now if we want the GL. I personally don't, as I love the challenge of trading to keep up with the tech lead. If we do, the blue dot probably needs to start a prebuild soon after we build it if we want to stand half a chance.

As for trading, I agree that we need to meet a couple of more trading partners before we can decide to deal. However, I'd love to get my hands on bronze working and warrior code relatively soon. Until then, we have to ensure we have enough warriors to keep the Hittites off our backs.
 
allin1joe said:
Also, I think we need to decide now if we want the GL. I personally don't, as I love the challenge of trading to keep up with the tech lead. If we do, the blue dot probably needs to start a prebuild soon after we build it if we want to stand half a chance.
I don't think we need it. With all that room for expansion I think we will be able to do a lot of self research. In a recent emperor game I was out-researching the AI at the start of the middle ages due to having space for many more cities than them.
 
Kinda mixed luck on GH, very lean tech wise, but hard to complain about a town. :D

Judging from the comments on not trading right away, maybe that is one of the things I'm messing up in trying to move up from Monarch. I do try to hold monopolies as long as possible, but also tend to get nervous about waiting to buy the ones I'm down because if my monopoly gets broken, that's usually it for ever being able to catch up. Got any more comments on when to trade and when not?

As for settlement, since there seems to be a lot of space should we try to settle "2nd ring" first and then fill in? [yes, I know rings don't work in C3C but talking about it that way is a hard habit to break...]
 
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