baseballpie
Deity
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No privateers? 
Air-Sea Renovation Workshop
- Thread starter Tomorrow's Dawn
- Start date
GreekAnalyzer
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I'm assuming that the lander is the boat used on say, D-Day? What would the Transport be as the current transport is the Higgins boat used in WWII.
Oh, I forgot about them. They're of course still in.No privateers?
The current model would be the lander, yeah. It even has the same tech requirement. The new unit only took its previous name.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
I really, really have to stress this.
In order for the rock-paper-scissors model to work properly in a naval context,
Light ships NEED to be built like Zerglings, two at a time, or else they won't be competitive against the Bread & Butter and Flagship classes.
They also should be the only ships in their respective tiers that do not require strategic resources.
In order for the rock-paper-scissors model to work properly in a naval context,
Light ships NEED to be built like Zerglings, two at a time, or else they won't be competitive against the Bread & Butter and Flagship classes.
They also should be the only ships in their respective tiers that do not require strategic resources.
GreekAnalyzer
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What will you have as a steam powered transport ship?
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Consider that one of the most pressing problems in the current naval mechanics is that it's difficult to replace lost ships, and it hurts more because they are less impactful overall than land units.
In a controlled setting, ideally, it works something like this:
Bread & Butter ship counters Light ships via a STR bonus on attack.
Flagships counter Bread & Butter ships via overwhelming force.
Now, Light ships by design should be able to weaken both classes slightly,
should they have an innate high withdrawal rating (70%).
HOWEVER, assuming one of these ships is fielded at a time, what then happens is:
Light ship attacks Flagship, shaves off 10-15% health and is attacked in return by the Flagship, thus rendering it ineffectual as a "counter" unit.
They need to be built in pairs in order to properly convey the value of such a weak unit.
I provided a similar example before, but the second problem lies in the math of Hammer investment. Think of it like this:
Say a Light ship costs about 70 Hammers, and a Flagship costs 140 Hammers.
Ideally, you build two Light ships in 2 turns, or one Flagship in 2 turns.
This is assuming your city's Hammer output is 70 per turn, which makes this a fair proposition.
However, in instances where say, the city has an output of 140 per turn, it's quite clear that there is no incentive to pick the
Light ship over the Flagship unless they were built in pairs at a time, to assist with numerical superiority.
This is my reasoning for having them be built in pairs.
Sanguivorant
Submitter
Is it possible for merchant ships to give you commerce? A gold bonus is kinda plain.
I don't see why that would be the case if light ships are as cheap as land units.
How is that supposed to work? You have a treasury for gold, not for commerce.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I assume the Dutch East Indiaman will still replace the Galleon?
And the Portuguese Carrack stays a Caravel replacement?
Also, if the Merchantman will be included, I thik there should also be a land based equivalent. (Think of the northern Silk Route, Mali etc.)
And the Portuguese Carrack stays a Caravel replacement?
Also, if the Merchantman will be included, I thik there should also be a land based equivalent. (Think of the northern Silk Route, Mali etc.)
I suppose. There is a case for the East Indiaman to replace the Merchantman unit if it is added, but the techs aren't entirely suitable (on the other hand, that doesn't matter with their late spawn).
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
What about a Merchantman which yields much more money (50%-100%) and can defend itself reasonably? As you said, they'll only be able to build unit after 1580 AD anyway, so the discrepancy with normal merchantmen isn't much of a problem.
Yeah, why not. That's a lot more unique and fitting than a super-transport that can cross foreign borders.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
When a privateer captures (read: kills) a merchantman, you should get a small amount of gold. This to represent the value of the cargo it's transporting.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Would it be appropriate if the amount of gold is increased if you have the Naval Doctrine civic?
Hojsimpson
Prince
I think not, because is a military civic.
But mercantilism or some economy civic maybe could.
"Merchantman (Compass): civilian unit, can perform trade missions (only profitable over long distances)"
So the city with the Temple of Artemis and holy cities gives more gold?
How much gold will merchantman give?
But mercantilism or some economy civic maybe could.
"Merchantman (Compass): civilian unit, can perform trade missions (only profitable over long distances)"
So the city with the Temple of Artemis and holy cities gives more gold?
How much gold will merchantman give?
Huh?
I don't know. They need to be worthwhile compared to building gold, since they carry a risk and take some time to arrive. Maybe 2-3 times their hammer cost for a large-sized city far away (like China or India for Europeans)? They should probably also be a national unit with a limit of 3 or something, so they cannot be spammed or kept in reserve.
The Diocletian
Fire Fly
I think buildings like the Temple of Artemis give increased gold in trade missions.
