Air Tiles

[Argetnyx]

I know it's a bit early, but I just want to get an opinion said.

Can anybody tell me how effective air units are in civ5? If they're anywhere near as useless as they were in civ4, I'm going to gag....again...

My idea is to add another layer of tiles. Like land and sea tiles, but another dimension. In said 'Air Tiles', you will be able to move your aircraft much like normal units. This opens up the possibility of the 'escort' concept, allows for a much more flexible use of your planes, and allows actual air doctrines to come into play.

 

[Galatian]

I know it's a bit early, but I just want to get an opinion said.

Can anybody tell me how effective air units are in civ5? If they're anywhere near as useless as they were in civ4, I'm going to gag....again...

My idea is to add another layer of tiles. Like land and sea tiles, but another dimension. In said 'Air Tiles', you will be able to move your aircraft much like normal units. This opens up the possibility of the 'escort' concept, allows for a much more flexible use of your planes, and allows actual air doctrines to come into play.

I think why planes are handled in the way they are right now is mainly because they need to keep it realistic. Consider one turn being at least half a year long on CIV endgames, have you ever seen a plane that could fly for that long?

 

[Argetnyx]

This is on a strategic scale. Each unit isn't one specific plane, but a whole squadron (or more, I'm not really familiar with the structure) of planes. They'd be on a circular pattern, some coming in to refuel, others out flying on missions.

 

[Camikaze]

I remember this idea coming up previously, and we got it to a nicely worked out stage (I can't remember if you were part of this or not, Argetnyx), but I can't for the life of me think of what thread it was in.

Anyway, I like this idea, but not necessarily for its military applications. Having an air layer would be a great addition for an expanded trade route and supply line idea. During war, your planes could block air supply lines, and during peace, you could use air routes to trade with other countries.

Air doctrines I'm not so keen on, simply because that seems way too warfare focused, and way too tactical.

 

[Scilly_guy]

Planes have been nerfed from Civ IV, you can't perform reconnaissance anymore, you can't bomb infrastructure, but then again you can kill units. I'd like to see a patrol option that uncovers an area and tells you if there are any enemy units, or large amounts of units belonging to a none friendly civ, ie a possible invasion force even though you're not currently at war.

 

[DaveGold]

Can anybody tell me how effective air units are in civ5? If they're anywhere near as useless as they were in civ4, I'm going to gag....again...

I found air units to be top quality in CIV4. We must have been playing different games.

Before patch 62 the AI built no planes. I used some bombers and they didn't seem overly effective. Barracks etc don't give xp to air units so they start unpromoted, they don't do more damage than promoted artillery, and they seemed to take a lot of damage each time they attacked. This meant they were at best flying a mission every other turn and artillery seemed much better if you had control of the ground.

 

[Argetnyx]

I remember this idea coming up previously, and we got it to a nicely worked out stage (I can't remember if you were part of this or not, Argetnyx), but I can't for the life of me think of what thread it was in.

Anyway, I like this idea, but not necessarily for its military applications. Having an air layer would be a great addition for an expanded trade route and supply line idea. During war, your planes could block air supply lines, and during peace, you could use air routes to trade with other countries.

Air doctrines I'm not so keen on, simply because that seems way too warfare focused, and way too tactical.

I wasn't the one that came up with the idea, but I was one of the first to advocate it. If the two of us had our way, civ6 would be epic...

The air doctrines are just an example of the use of the air layer. They're more of a personal strategy for air warfare. Like this: Do you use your planes to support your ground troops? Or do you use them to knock out the other's planes and then target their industry?

 

[Camikaze]

I found air units to be top quality in CIV4.

I had neglected to raise this point with the OP, but I agree with DaveGold's assessment.

I wasn't the one that came up with the idea, but I was one of the first to advocate it. If the two of us had our way, civ6 would be epic...

The air doctrines are just an example of the use of the air layer. They're more of a personal strategy for air warfare. Like this: Do you use your planes to support your ground troops? Or do you use them to knock out the other's planes and then target their industry?

Ah, okay, that's perfectly fine. And perfectly strategic.

 

[Argetnyx]

in Civ3, planes were your gods. If you managed to build them before your enemies, you could control the battlefield, like in real life. In civ4, they really didn't seem to have much effect on anything.

 

[Camikaze]

Fighters were near useless, given, but bombers were brilliant when you got them and for the rest of the game. Collateral damage to a stack was only something that you could do with siege weapons, which would die quickly from doing so. And reducing city defences in landlocked cities was only something you could do with siege weapons, which by the stage of planes, would lag behind in movement. Any form of Blitzkrieg was impossible without bombers in Civ4.

 

[Argetnyx]

I'm not saying that they weren't important, just that they were less important than they should have been. To tell you the truth, fighters were useless in civ3 until you got jet fighters.