Airports, Aircraft Buildings, and Aircraft Abilities

[Soryn Arkayn]

The omission of an Airport used to be one of the most controversial changes in Civ5. I was wondering if anyone else still wants Airports to be re-introduced to Civ5? Or have players simply gotten used to having to transport their armies by sea?

Considering the continuous changes to the game from updates and DLC, it's certainly possible for the dev to patch-in Airports.

An Airport would still be useful to transport units from city-to-city (one per turn of course), and they should also serve secondary purposes, such as establishing trade routes and possibly providing wealth, happiness, and possibly culture bonuses (from tourism).

It's possible that an Airport could be a tile improvement instead of a city building (similar to the Airbase in previous Civ games). If an Airport occupied a tile like a Fortress, it would probably deter players from building too many of them.

I'd also like a city building that specifically gives Aircraft extra XP. It could be called the "Aerial Combat Training Academy". Or maybe call it an "Airbase" and have it be an upgrade to the Airport. (BTW, a "Naval Academy" or "Naval Base" would also be welcome to boost warship XP.)

Considering the radical one-unit-per-tile change in Civ5, I'm bewildered by city's infinite-stack aircraft capacity. It should be limited so something more reasonable. Perhaps only 4 without an Airport, and a maximum of 8 with an Airport (although realistically a city should require an airport to base any aircraft there).

Also, many of the aircraft abilities from previous Civ games should be restored, like Recon, tile improvement bombing, and precision bombing of city buildings.

 

[pxpdoo]

I don't think the Airport needs to come back; since they did away with the pollution mechanic, there wouldn't be much for it to do (maybe aircraft XP) anyway. It's like alot of other things in every Civ game, where they do the 1/3 Same - 1/3 Improved - 1/3 New formula. Thus, 2/3 of any previous Civ (Civ 4, in this case) isn't the same in the next Civ version.
Of course, these are conscious decisions by the devs, and (like with anything) it is impossible that everyone is going to agree. Personally, I think there are plenty (overly plenty) of buildings that a city can build. An airport would be an unnecessary addition to an already huge pile.
As for infinite aircraft in a city, well... I agree.

 

[Uberfrog]

I would certainly like the ability to fly units between cities. Late in the game, where your empire is expanded overseas, it becomes a pain to have to sail your units around.

 

[turingmachine]

I don't think the Airport needs to come back; since they did away with the pollution mechanic, there wouldn't be much for it to do (maybe aircraft XP) anyway.

What does the lack of pollution mechanic have to do with anything? The main function of the airport was to airlift units which is completely lacking in V.

 

[jega001]

I don't think it will happen but I think it would be interesting if a worker could be expended and turned into an "airbase" on a tile in or out of your culture borders. This would change the dynamics of moving air units around the map and allow you new options in striking enemy territory across the sea without having to use carriers. This becomes especially important with Stealth Bombers. One melee unit could be stationed inside the Airbase to protect it and an enemy unit could take the airbase by destroying any units inside and moving their own unit into the tile. With all the other improvements that should be made I don't think that's coming soon but personally I do think it would be a nice addition to the mechanics of air combat.

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

I don't think the Airport needs to come back; since they did away with the pollution mechanic, there wouldn't be much for it to do (maybe aircraft XP) anyway.

Apparently you've forgotten that the primary function of the Airport was to airlift units between cities -- primarily across the ocean to other continents or islands.

I realize that we've had to adapt to the changes in Civ5, but there's no denying that the Airport was an invaluable city improvement that made moving units across continents much quicker and easier than having to transport them by land or sea. If the Airport was re-introduced to Civ5 I can't imagine anyone objecting to it.

 

[muhtesem insan]

Airbase improvement could really help especially in OCC. You should be able to put it in your cultural borders or your allied city state's.

 

[00konichiwa00]

yes airports and the ability to build improvents on tiles, so the airplanes can land there (civ 3 had that feature).

 

[pxpdoo]

Okay, okay, guess I'll have to defend myself for a second lol
I did not "forget" anything, I was simply in a terrible hurry and assumed that readers would know about airlifting and so on. My phrasing could have been better, I see, and I apologize. Now please quit quoting me like I'm a noob.

 

[Xichael]

I play on my laptop so I only play on Tiny/Duel sized maps but an airport would be nice so when I conquer a city on another continent I can fly it over instead of "running the gauntlet" when my few destroyers can only cover so many tiles...

 

[muhtesem insan]

to make it more spicy, they could make airports a requirement for planes to garrison in a city. If you do not have a airport you can not have planes.

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

I play on my laptop so I only play on Tiny/Duel sized maps but an airport would be nice so when I conquer a city on another continent I can fly it over instead of "running the gauntlet" when my few destroyers can only cover so many tiles...

I don't think it matters what size of map you play on or even if it's a Pangaea map, the Airport would be beneficial. Airlifting units across continents would be much safer then embarking them and having to escort them across the ocean. But moving units long distances across land can be even more of a hassle if you have to cross another civ's territory. Firstly, it requires Open Borders. And the one-unit-per-tile limitation often results in your units getting blocked by the other faction's units, and forces your units to go off the roads and rails to bypass them.

My point is that it can take forever to move units long distances over both land and sea. Being able to airlift units like in previous Civ games would alleviate needless hassle and risk.

to make it more spicy, they could make airports a requirement for planes to garrison in a city. If you do not have a airport you can not have planes.

I think that would be going overboard. Realistically, an airport isn't required for planes to land and take-off. Make-shift airstrips have been used since the invention of air planes, so the idea of restricting aircraft to only cities with Airports would be too radical a change. If Airports were added to Civ5, I think there should be a limit imposed on the number of aircraft that can be based in a city without an Airport, but it shouldn't be restricted.

These are my ideas and suggestions:

1) There should be an Airport that permits one-unit-per-turn airlifting, limited range.

2) There could also be an upgraded airport called an "International Airport" that permits multiple or unlimited airlifts per turn, unlimited range.

3) There should be an "Air Combat Training School" (think "Top Gun") that provides bonus XP to only Air units. (Perhaps this +XP building can only be built by a Great General, similar to Civ4.)

4) There could also be an Airbase tile improvement that allows aircraft to be based there, which can be constructed in enemy territory to create a forward airbase. The Airbase could be garrisoned by a single land unit. Like the Fortress, if an enemy unit occupies the Airbase, it's automatically destroyed, along with any air units based there.

5) Limit of 2 Air units for a city without an airport. Limit of 4-6 Air units for a city with an Airport. Limit of 8-10 air units for a city an International Airport. Limit of 4 air units to an Airbase.

 

[ObadiahtheSlim]

These are my ideas and suggestions:

1) There should be an Airport that permits one-unit-per-turn airlifting, limited range.

2) There could also be an upgraded airport called an "International Airport" that permits multiple or unlimited airlifts per turn, unlimited range.

3) There should be an "Air Combat Training School" (think "Top Gun") that provides bonus XP to only Air units. (Perhaps this +XP building can only be built by a Great General, similar to Civ4.)

4) There could also be an Airbase tile improvement that allows aircraft to be based there, which can be constructed in enemy territory to create a forward airbase. The Airbase could be garrisoned by a single land unit. Like the Fortress, if an enemy unit occupies the Airbase, it's automatically destroyed, along with any air units based there.

5) Limit of 2 Air units for a city without an airport. Limit of 4-6 Air units for a city with an Airport. Limit of 8-10 air units for a city an International Airport. Limit of 4 air units to an Airbase.

I think #3 should be a national wonder. Once all your cities have airports you can build your air equivalent to the heroic epic.

 

[CrazyHorseSouix]

I'll modify that slightly:

Base changes: Cities only allowed to hold 1 aircraft.

Airport: Creates trade route to capital if one doesn't exist, land units can airlift from one city to another if both cities have airports (and if in aircraft rebase range). Allows 2 aircraft in city

Flight School: air units built in this city gain +15xp

International Airport: National Wonder. Unlimited aircraft in this city. +1 to aircraft limit in all cities.

Green Zone: Tile improvement. Can be built by great general in enemy territory. Can garrison a land unit, and can act as forward base for 2 aircraft (3 with int'l airport).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'll modify that slightly:

Base changes: Cities only allowed to hold 1 aircraft.

Airport: Creates trade route to capital if one doesn't exist, land units can airlift from one city to another if both cities have airports (and if in aircraft rebase range). Allows 2 aircraft in city

Flight School: air units built in this city gain +15xp

International Airport: National Wonder. Unlimited aircraft in this city. +1 to aircraft limit in all cities.

Green Zone: Tile improvement. Can be built by great general in enemy territory. Can garrison a land unit, and can act as forward base for 2 aircraft (3 with int'l airport).

Nice, I like that idea.

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

I think #3 should be a national wonder. Once all your cities have airports you can build your air equivalent to the heroic epic.

To justify building an Airport in every city that the Player controls to unlock the National Wonder, it would have to provide significant bonuses to Wealth, Culture, and possibly Happiness and Science, similar to the other late-game buildings. It's difficult to determine what bonuses an Airport should provide. It should certainly boost Wealth, but since trade routes have been eliminated in Civ5, it could only be a percentage boost -- perhaps +25%. It could also boost Culture because of travel and tourism, but how much?

I think that Airports should form national and international networks that boost Wealth and Culture (maybe even Happiness and Science), and each Airport enhances the effect. Within a civ, Airports should connect cities and allow them to "export" a percentage of their Culture and Wealth (without negatively effecting the amount they generate) to other cities. The more cities with Airports, the more C/W/H/S they'd share.

If civs agreed to Open Borders, perhaps Airports could connect civs in the same way and allow them to export C/W/H/S to each other.

Perhaps the International Airport should be a National Wonder, so that only one could be built per civ. And only the International Airport would allow civs to export C/W/H/S using Open Borders. Instead of importing Science every turn, perhaps the International Airport could increase the amount of Science that Research Agreements provide by +25-50%.

I think it makes more sense for the International Airport to be a National Wonder, instead of the Air unit +XP building. Maybe the Air +XP building could be unlocked after X number of Airports were built -- maybe 5 -- instead of all of them. Or maybe it's only buildable by expending a Great General; or an Air unit has to reach a certain XP level (similar to how Heroic Epic was unlocked when a unit reached exp lvl 5).

(BTW, I'd also like a +XP Naval building, like a "Naval Academy", which would be buildable/unlockable in the same way.)

I'll modify that slightly:

Base changes: Cities only allowed to hold 1 aircraft.

Airport: Creates trade route to capital if one doesn't exist, land units can airlift from one city to another if both cities have airports (and if in aircraft rebase range). Allows 2 aircraft in city

Flight School: air units built in this city gain +15xp

International Airport: National Wonder. Unlimited aircraft in this city. +1 to aircraft limit in all cities.

Green Zone: Tile improvement. Can be built by great general in enemy territory. Can garrison a land unit, and can act as forward base for 2 aircraft (3 with int'l airport).

Re: Base changes: 1 aircraft per city would be too radical of a change and limitation. 2 aircraft per city without an Airport would be fair IMO, and a change that everyone could adapt to.

Re: Airport: Agree on the trade route. But I don't think that both cities should need an Airport to airlift units between them. That's too limiting, because if you captured a city, it would take many turns before the resistance ended, and you'd have to annex it and either build or purchase the Airport to airlift units there. That's impractical.

An Airport should permit airlifting one unit per turn to a city without an Airport -- that's fair IMO. Perhaps if both cities had Airports, the destination city could stack up to 5 units per turn, and they'd be in-active until the next turn.

And the limitation of only 2 aircraft based in a city with an Airport; again, that's too severe a limitation. It should be at least 4.

Re: Flight School: +15 xp for Air units = Agreed.

Re: International Airport: National Wonder = Agreed. Unlimited aircraft in this city = maybe. I don't see how having an International Airport would or should allow +1 aircraft limit in all cities, so I disagree. It seems like a contrivance to correct your excessive base limitations, which I've already disagreed with.

I've explained the benefits and bonuses that the International Airport would provide, which would be much more useful to a civ than merely boosting the amount of Air units that could be based in cities. An International Airport isn't intended to be a military building; it's a National Wonder that could allow the importation of friendly civs Culture and Wealth using Open Borders.

Re: Green Zone: Strongly disagree. The Green Zone is not the equivalent of a forward airbase. And it's not even relevent or apropos anymore. A tile improvement that permits Air units to be based there should be called either an "Airbase" or "Airfield".

Perhaps there could be both. A Worker could construct the Airfield, but it would take the equivalent amount of turns as a Fortress to complete. The Airfield would only allow 2 Air units to be based there, it could be garrisoned by a Land unit for protection, but it wouldn't provide any defensive bonuses. A Great General would be expended to instantly create an Airbase, which would base 4 Air units, could be garrisoned, and did provide defensive bonuses.

Perhaps Air units based in Airfields or an Airbase in enemy territory incur +50-100% maintenance cost than normal, because of the logistical difficulty in maintaining and supplying them. That should deter players from building too many forward airbases and spamming air units.

 

[snarzberry]

some good ideas. I'd like that it would motivate me to go for domination victories on continents maps more often, usually too much of a hassle as it is.

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

some good ideas. I'd like that it would motivate me to go for domination victories on continents maps more often, usually too much of a hassle as it is.

Interesting point of view. I prefer continents maps and I always play like I'm going for DV. The lack of Airports and airlifting hasn't deterred my aggressive play style, it's merely hampered it.

I wonder if the dev chose to omit Airports because they thought the inconvenience of embarking units would encourage players to try the other victory types. The problem is that regardless what victory type you choose, the other civs declare war on you whenever you're close to achieving victory, so the lack of Airports doesn't stop wars, it only makes intercontinental wars more challenging. And the AI seems to suffer from the inability to execute large scale seaborne invasions, which makes it easier on the Player in SP campaigns. My point is that if I'm right about the reason why the dev omitted Airports, it was a poor excuse and needs to be corrected.

We've all had to adapt to Civ5 without airlifting, but I think the experiment should come to an end. It's obvious that Airports are invaluable and should be re-implemented into Civ5.

 

[woodshadows]

I love the way fighters take damage when attacking non-ranged land units. I've seen people argue that it's because the plane would suffer damage/maintenance to perform the mission, but then why don't other ranged units suffer similar damage? I mean, a PLANE, in the SKY, shooting from far away at a spearman, takes damage (and barely gives any damage) and yet an archer can shoot at the same spearman and take no damage.. doesn't make sense. Buff up naval and air units and people might bother building them.

 

[sparkyal]

Yeah, i had airports in some form too on a similar thread. I really want them back. Some type of ability to forward deploy them i think is necessary. As for moving aircraft between cities with airports, they should have unlimited range since we could assume mid-air refueling.

Plus, enemy fighters could intercept aircraft. and for diplomacy we could have no fly zones.....airports open up many possibilities and I want them back