1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

AI's Great Generals

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by testdummy653, Nov 1, 2010.

  1. testdummy653

    testdummy653 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Lab 653
    It occurred to me when writing on another thread that the AI never really uses their great generals...
    Granted I'm only up to emperor in my difficulty is that the case in higher difficulties?
     
  2. Putmalk

    Putmalk Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2,623
    Location:
    New York
    On higher difficulties the AI doesn't even need the generals as they can build 10 units in 1 turn with 4 cities.

    An exaggeration, I know. But from my personal experiences are, the AI does not know how to use generals at all.
     
  3. firecat318

    firecat318 Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    170
    In every game I've played from Settler to Deity the AI never used their generals, they would just keep them in the cities. Although I have caught a few great artists in transit presumably going to culture bomb somebodies borders.
     
  4. testdummy653

    testdummy653 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Lab 653
    I've seen the carpet of doom, in couple of games.

    I've also seen a couple of great engineers and merchants wandering aimlessly around sometimes.
     
  5. DaveGold

    DaveGold Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,058
    I've seen the AI put generals into vaguely sensible places. Unfortunately they're often trying to defend in a city that I'm always going to capture anyway.
     
  6. testdummy653

    testdummy653 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Lab 653
    Do you have a screenshot of any other location of a GG than in a city?

    Because all i see is the GG in the city, which makes sense when that city is about to fall, but no sense when their is no units around it.
     
  7. Rudster816

    Rudster816 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    40
    I saw an enemy Great Artist right on my border of two cities that I had just captured from him and made peace, I thought for sure he was going to culture bomb me (I said "hey, good for him") but the next turn it fell back in to the fog of war never to be seen again.

    One time I had to build over the AI's science building (cant remember what thats called, there so useless) because there was uranium on that tile, so they do use great people (some of the time).
     
  8. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    3,428
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    the United States
    Only seen when defending cities. Never in the crowd during an attack. I expect that it's very hard to program!
     
  9. testdummy653

    testdummy653 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Lab 653
    That what i figured.... Maybe this should be a feature on the change list?
     
  10. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    3,428
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    the United States
    I think that would be very optimistic! The AI's placement and movement of troops is often poor in both attack and defence anyway; we've all noticed that. As a software engineer of old, I think I would find the challenge to improve it quite enormous. You'd need to choose overall between many set troop patterns from quickly changing heuristics, and you'd still need to be flexible to adapt to changing terrain and opposition.

    That would be the priority for any fix. But I can see that adding a limited mobility two-move GG in the midst of all this would be a nightmare. A Khan would be slightly easier because of greater mobility. However, I suspect the patterns and permutations would be far fewer in defence than attack and - guess what - where's the obvious place to put a GG in defence, and do so with minimum programming effort? ;) That's right: in the city! :lol:
     
  11. ICanHasName?

    ICanHasName? Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    272
    I have seen a few GG outside of cities, but it looked like the nearest cities were clogged with workers so they didn't really have a choice. I have never seen one that looked like it was being used for an attack or even for defense, they seem to just randomly toss them in whatever city is closest.

    I wonder if they burn them on Golden Ages?
     
  12. gunter

    gunter King

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
    Messages:
    790
    At least 30-40% of the game features can't be handled by the AI , clearly who programmed the AI didn't know how to use them too.
     
  13. MeowTau

    MeowTau Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Isn't that the story of this game though? Programming a competent AI is really the only important task the development team had. 1upt and hexes are awesome, but pointless with ******** AI. I could forgive all the other stuff if I at least had a challenging AI's to play against. But instead this AI walks its military into your lands single file, and thinks archers make good front line troops. Anything but Pangea is unplayable because the AI doesn't understand water. Never using GGs is the least of the AI's concerns. I don't see this getting fixed, as it clearly wasn't important to begin with. :mad:
     
  14. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    3,428
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    the United States
    True.
    You don't know that, one way or the other. Programming any AI to deal with human interaction is very hard indeed. Try it yourself. As a parallel, after more than a decade of trying to get human interaction bots to be convincing (http://alice.pandorabots.com/ was one of the first), they're still VERY easy to break. You'd think that language and conversation would be an easy win, but it's not. I'd be kinder on the Civ AI programmers. It's a hard job and we're probably many years away from anything convincing.
     
  15. Stuie

    Stuie Laudir Agus Mir

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2001
    Messages:
    551
    Location:
    Upper Gwynedd, PA
    I'd rather they fix AI use of ranged units, then worry about GGs.
     
  16. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    3,428
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    the United States
    Oh, it's important enough all right. It's just not cost effective for a small games software company to fix by themselves. Their payback would never be able to fund them enough to hire a large enough team to do this.

    For example, to solve this problem, you need time and a LOT of people. I would estimate that if you had a team of 50 people doing nothing else for 5 years, they'd stand a chance. But they could never afford that. You'd have no change at all from $10m. The only people who can afford this are the military, and they're not going to share their secrets with Firaxis! :lol:
     
  17. testdummy653

    testdummy653 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Lab 653
    How about combat in general?, the patch fixed things, but i would love to see some more changes
     
  18. Vellis

    Vellis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    It seems like the AI only uses GG for city defense. They always put their first GG in their capitol, then additional ones go into border cities.

    One time the AI culture bombed my only aluminum tile though. That was so brilliant I just assumed it was an accident =p
     
  19. MeowTau

    MeowTau Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Well at least in Civ IV BTS I didn't feel like I was playing against complete retards. I know it might be hard and expensive, but so is not having sales. I will not be buying any expansions or future games if they don't feel like giving me a halfway competent AI to play against.

    Yes it would be hard to program a human-like AI, but that's not what I'm asking for. Even the most basic things like not having archers on the front lines, or attacking as a group rather than single file have not been fixed. At least in Civ IV the AI sometimes defended its town. Now they always suicide them against your ranged units.
     
  20. testdummy653

    testdummy653 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Lab 653
    I have had that done to me too, i was very unhappy.
     

Share This Page