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ALC 27: Churchill of England

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    1) Bureucracy. Definite counter-synergy for making a possibly good commerce capital a GP farm. (Sometimes it's good, not here IMO)

    2) Too much food. To use it all you'd have to be something like size 14 running 9 specialists (~size 12/7 if FP cottaged), otherwise you'd be wasting it. Not a very preferable scenario. To make things worse none of the food resources could be overlapped.

    Better to make good commerce/hammer Bureu capital and a separate GP farm for 5-6 specs. Usually I hate settling on FP a LOT but here it's the best move IMO.

    But yes, depends a bit on what the warrior reveals...
     
  2. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I'm actually hoping the neighbors are aggressive, so we can see charmismatic and protective archers in action. :lol:

    I hope to see redcoats in action - when I've played as Elizabeth in the past (never played as Victoria) I would always go for a cultural victory and never research rifling, so redcoats never saw action. I wish they were strength 16, not 14 though....

    Pretty much agree. While I don't think there will be much of a barbarian threat due to 9 AI's , it's always safe to go for archery, especially if they're protective. Don't forget that I have to research Hunting as well so Archery will take a while. Definitely BW first.

    Nice, feel free to drop in and comment at anytime. :goodjob:

    I missed that at the start ... don't know why, since the blue circle is a very reasonable location. I wouldn't worry about health too much since I've got 3 health already from fish, clams, and pigs.

    Good to hear your opinion. I guess it depends on what the warrior sees.

    My intial thought at first, although let's move the warrior first.

    I agree.

    I hope the warrior reveals awesome stuff. :)

    I am going to move the warrior ASAP (once I can use my computer with CIV again, shouldn't take too long). I do like the idea of moving east of the pigs since we both know that there is room for a city by the southern clams.

    Yeah yeah :lol:.

    Possibly.

    I agree that I might lose a strategic resource - capital's tend to have close to 4 resources so we've got 3 here (I know seafood counts as 2/3rds of a resource, but it's a safe bet to assume that we've got 1 more resource).

    If I concentrate, I can try to get a size 20 capital by 1 AD. Won't happen but I can try.

    Will do.

    :lol: I hope to pop gold and silver myself, or else to find them on the map.

    Nice point! I always seem to have trouble with a good Globe Theatre farm since the best food cities are the ones I want dedicated to research, not to be drafting down to size 6.

    A good plan.

    The capital will definitely be the GP farm, but it also needs to act as the science city.

    There's only 1 ocean square in the BFC if I settle in place, so not that much of a big deal. What might be a big deal is what the warrior reveals, so I'll get to that shortly.

    I like this capital both as a bureaucracy and a GP city. Trouble is, (like you) I don't like cities to be both since I like the bureaucracy city working cottages and the GP city hiring specialists.

    ------------

    Wow, looks like a lot of supporters for 3 different city spots. :lol:

    By the way this map is fully random (as always). It hasn't be tested or looked at by anyone I've talked to so far.
     
  3. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    4000 BC: Initial Warrior Move





    (By the way, I think there's 1,235 land tiles on this map.)
     
  4. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Blue circle.
     
  5. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    :lol: I agree, probably an easy decision. I'll probably settle there, build a workboat for the FISH first, then maybe another one. Or I could build a second warrior in between. I'm not sure when I will start a worker but I will want one sooner or later. Time for me to start planning ahead, doing calculations, etc. for fastest growth.

    There is one useless desert tile, but I never grow my capital big enough early to have the desert adversely affect me.

    I hope to have the round done and posted by Sunday (gives me the week to focus on school and SATs).

    By the way, one thing I noticed from this is that there are two other desert hills ... let's hope for more gold!
     
  6. Bruin.Bound

    Bruin.Bound Chieftain

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    This is gonna be my first live ALC following, so good luck... make it memorable :goodjob:

    I got Warlords right after I finished college around 2 months ago, about two weeks after that I was clever enough to come here, and following these types of games is priceless information. I pulled off two immortal victories right before I went out and got BtS, so this exactly the type of game I want to follow... and yeah, blue circle :lol:
     
  7. bobbyboy29

    bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns...

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    Thanks so much for reviving the series DMOC, my civ story was similar to yours. I would advise against moving the starting location too far, especially not to the blue circle. Gold may be good, but it is desert and not riverside thus not so good, also you would then have much more sea and a desert tile in your BFC. In place or at most 1N means that you will have more improvable land tiles and will most likely get a strategic resource in the capital's BFC (definately if you settle in place). Methinks the suspiciously deforested hill 1S of the start may contain copper or iron. Good luck and good redcoats!
     
  8. lange17

    lange17 Chieftain

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    Thanks for running this one. I'm a monarch-level player, but trying to learn, so I'm looking forward to shadowing. To wit, I've played the first thousand years, and...

    Spoiler :
    ...this is a freakishly good start. Its so good I'm starting to think I might have a chance to win it without reloading after identifying mistakes from reading this thread. All the more so because I went blue circle...


    Anyway, can't wait to see how things go. Thanks!
     
  9. CarlH

    CarlH Warlord

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    another vote for the blue circle ... not only a better capital (more food, an extra flood plain and gold) but leaves room for a second city to use the second clam.

    good to see another attempt at reviving the ALC! nice work DMOC.
     
  10. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    Yeah, blue circle I think. A bit lacking in production, but you can't turn down a 3 food resource + gold site...

    Is there any kind of argument for settling 1N? 3 food, 2 FP, 5 hills? I don't really think so compared to getting gold in the BFC - any thoughts?
     
  11. Kwibuss

    Kwibuss Warlord

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    This ain't my thread so maybe I'm wrong, but ALC threads are without spoilers. If you want to shadow the ALC I suggest you make a new thread.
    Ofcourse if DMOC thinks it's ok then I haven't said a thing.
     
  12. Kwibuss

    Kwibuss Warlord

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    Blue circle. Extra hammers from the plain hill you settled on will help the work boat production nicely.

    Too bad there are 2 desert tiles tho.

    Oh and nice one starting an ALC DMOC, while were waiting for Lord Parkin ;)
     
  13. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    Trade off: Blue circle has gold. The fish means one extra food, but 2 extra floodplains makes 5 and tips the unhealth up to +2, as well as +2 for moving away from the river. It also loses some forests, surely enough for at least another +1 yuk.

    Worker first might be best at blue circle, to actually use the gold, as well as if we start with a work boat there is no plains hill forest for the first 5 turns.

    I agree that 1N looks better than in place. Fish compared to clam at the start makes a big difference, but it will be a major bummer if there is copper or horse in the blank square.
     
  14. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I'm a little worried about health on the blue circle as opposed to 1N. Early commerce is very nice, but desert gold isn't the best tile in the world. Blue circle trades late game for a faster opening, is it worth it? I'm leaning on yes, if only because the seafood will tweak health a little bit and the plains hill will speed up the start which is a plus.

    Anyway, on the plains hill seems best, although palace may move later ;).
     
  15. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

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    Plains hill yes - didn't notice that - could be the clincher. Worker first and get the gold mined immediately while the fish boat is built, then work both till end of game!
     
  16. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    Pro's of blue circle:
    1) Gold in BFC
    2) 3 food resources for 3 health
    3) all floodplains
    4) Enough hills for production
    5) Opening up the lower clams for a second city
    6) 6 sea tiles with 2 of them with resources

    Cons:
    1) 1 desert tile
    2) Desert gold is a little less interesting
    3) Low health due to no fresh water

    Pro's 1N:
    1) More health
    2) River start for levees
    3) Saves forest on grassland hill

    Cons:
    1) No gold and a chance that the city with it will not great (although there are more floodplains)
    2) More sea tiles (2 more then on grassland hill)
    3) Wasts a floodplain

    Imho, I think blue circle is better.
     
  17. Pohjalainen

    Pohjalainen Chieftain

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    Killroyan said what I was going to say. Go for the blue circle.
     
  18. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Guess I'm the only one still favoring in place. 3 less health on the blue circle and a LOT fewer forests for health+chopping. Might actually prove to be a slower start even with the Gold; not like this is a commerce-poor opening.

    Oh, and losing a turn with 9 AIs on a Standard map on Deity is huge.
     
  19. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    You're actually not losing a turn, but gaining two, because of the plains hill accelerating the initial worker production from 15 to 12 turns. The only thing you lose a turn on is research, which isn't so useful.

    On the gold debate, the tile itself is interesting but not game-breaking. At 2:hammers: and 7:commerce: it's almost like running a super-specialist - a nice option, but not one you'll want to use all the time. Health probably isn't such an issue, with all the seafood (and eventually, a harbour) and probably more health resources in the mist. The only problem I can see is that production-wise, the blue circle start is a bit lacking, possibly leading to over-reliance on the whip early on. You lose out later as well, of course, not being able to build a levee, or work all 5 of those juicy hills.

    However, on deity, short-term probably beats long-term - if you don't optimize the short-term, there usually isn't a long-term. Therefore, my vote is to go on the blue circle.
     
  20. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Good point, especially since the first build is probably a work boat here. However, having 8 forests to chop instead of 2 is a significant short-term advantage in my book ;)
     

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