Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Sep 6, 2009.
Have you had alphabet soup for lunch?
Alphabet soup is not in my vocabulary.
So I ended up playing the next round up to 750 BC (turn 130). Yeah, that's a lot of turns, but I ended up at war with 2 other AI's so it was too exciting to stop. Aim is to update tomorrow.
\o/ \o/ o/o/o/o \o\o\o
Been refreshing this page all day...
Sorry, no update for now. I was only able to update the Julius Caesar game now.
I gotta do my calculus homework.
Hey I was looking forward... oh! thanks for reminding me. I have some Calc I gotta do too
Just found this... subscribed. Looking forward to reading up on what happened since the first round.
That's a superb starting location you've got yourself there - especially for Deity level. I'm impressed. Did you get that on your first try, or did you regenerate a bit to get something interesting?
Tokugawa is an irritation to play against, but aside from that it looks like you've got a decent bunch of AI's there. Aside from Tokugawa, no-one is protective, and aside from Augustus no-one has a fearsome early UU (except - arguably - Hannibal). Only one Financial leader as well, so the tech pace shouldn't be too overwhelming.
On the whole it's far from the worst situation for the start of a Deity game.
Personally if I'd been playing this out I would definitely have gone for the early rush of Washington. Too close for comfort, and the non-hilled capital with a non-Protective leader is too good an opportunity to pass up. Will be interested to see what you did though.
Thanks for commenting.
I didn't do an early rush although I did delcare war on an AI (yes I did that). The option for an early war in this game (at least from the way I've set it up) is a catapults + war elephant + axes combination vs. Washington.
I don't think I regenerated to get this start, although I could be wrong as I don't remember if I did. I generally play out my first start unless I either get a really great location far better than this one (for online games only ... offline, I play them ) or a really crappy one (stuck in tundra with 1 cow resource). The start by itself was great but I had to move to get the gold.
Hannibal might not be much of a threat this game since he's got the same amount of cities I've got by the 2nd round's end. The problem will be Joao II - he's already got 12 cities by 750 BC.
12 cities by 750BC? I'm looking forward to seeing how you'll win this one!
Yeah ... he's certainly living up to his reputation as the best AI REXer. 2nd biggest civ has something like 9 cities.
Joao can be such an annoyance. If he doesn't decide to build a wonder in his capital early on he usually REXes so extremely fast. Since he's also quite a decent techer he can be a pain.
Allthough he doesn't declare very fast... well that's my experience with him, without checking the numbers.
You done with that calc homework yet?
*Passes out for trying to say up until the update is done*
Guys, relax. Alc updates are known to be slow updates. Give DMOC a break
Had my calc test today ...
I will try to update on Saturday (or maybe Friday if I get lucky). After I do the update I'll be busy doing college applications.
No rush, study and tests come first.
Just update when you can.
Charismatic Woodsman Axe are good for this map
Round 2: 3000 BC to 750 BC [90 Turns] - Exploration, Expansion, and a Laconic War (Part I)
This update was 90 turns long. But once I got things going, I really couldn't stop.
I started things off by growing London to size 4 and then working on a settler.
I want to address something here. You can see that I had been building a warrior in London before London grew to size 4. However, I didn't finish the warrior, as you can see in the screenshot. He needs 4 more turns to be produced. I believe that the simple act of switching immediately to a settler without bothering to finish a warrior is something that separates the high - level player from the semi - high - level player. I remember when I first started playing on Immortal difficulty. In a situation like this, I would have forced myself to finish the warrior because I was worried about defense and an escort. However, finishing the warrior is a bad idea.
There were no barbarians at all near the capital.
Even if there were barbarians, I had a warrior or two fortified to kill even archers. Furthermore, the AI's were swarming with archers and scouts, which meant that there was little risk of barbarians to attack me. Lastly, a barbarian city popped near me so I knew that the city effectively negated those tiles as barbarian spawn points.
Finishing the warrior adds on to maintenance costs. Why not just finish it later?
Building the settler immediately lets it reach its location one turn sooner, which can be huge in some situations.
Delaying your soldiers' production confuses the AI since the AI is (I think) coded to increase their attack power if they detect that their human neighbor is rapidly rising in power. This factor is more important in a medieval and renaissance war, methinks.
Finally, you have the option of building a barracks after the settler (assuming you work the warrior for one turn so no hammer decay occurs). Not only does this add to your power, but it allows you to have a promoted warrior to boot (and charismatic means easier levelling up). And if there's a threat, you can always switch back to the warrior to kill whatever was coming at your capital (be sure to use defensive bonuses).
I had been hoping to grab the sugar for my first city site. However, it was not to be.
Oh well, I'll settle for the corn + double ivory site then.
I got the usual 50-turn report, this one stating that Peter was larger than Joao II even though the latter had 67% more cities.
Just as my settler was about to be complete, I thought it would be circumspect to research Mysticism, so that my second city can start working on a charismatic-enhanced monument as soon as possible. By the way, as you can see, I researched Bronze Working and have no less than two easily - accessible sources!
I founded York. I spent quite some time staring at the computer screen and wondering what was the best location for York. I ended up on this site since it has the corn in the first ring, for faster growing, and also has marble and ivory in the first ring which would make the ivory easier to culturally control (the highly coveted marble was unfortunately already under Washington's control). The downside with this city is that it wasn't on a river for the freshwater and levee bonus.
To be able to farm the corn in York, I selected Agriculture after finishing up Mysticism. As you can see, I continued on another settler so that I could get a city by the copper before Washington snuck one there.
I ended up whipping the settler in my capital (man I should have researched Bronze Working first ... lesson learned) and founded Nottingham. I was planning on founding it 1E of it's current location, but decided to settle on the plains hill instead. This way, I could improve the cows immediately (yay for extra health for London) and the city could work more cottages for London than a city 1E of it could. Again, the downside was that Nottingham wasn't on a river and I had to bring a worker to connect our three cities. Notice the date: 3 cities by 2325 BC. In most games I play, I have a goal of getting at least 3 cities before 2000 BC. But look at Joao II! Seven cities in 2325 BC! I always heard that he was the A.I. leader that was Civ IV's greatest REXXER and it's definitely obvious here. He also seems to have founded Christianity via the Monotheism technology (Choose Religions is on).
So you want to see stories of early Pyramids???
I am pleased, though, that London made it on the list even without any wonders - the gold must be dong wonders.
Once my cities grew a bit, I began building workers. They're arguably Civ IV's most important unit, or second most important after settlers.
York had a border pop which ensured that it's closest ivory would remain under my control.
My research path this round was, IIRC, Bronze Working, Mysticism, Agriculture, Pottery, Writing, Sailing.
Here's London 1 turn away from finishing a granary and Writing (any guesses to what the next build will be?). I made sure to have the granary be finished BEFORE the city grew so that the granary bonus would be applied the following turn.
After Writing, it was time for Sailing, mainly for the lighthouse bonus, but also so that I can whip a galley for defense against barbarian galleys. Also, it's a cheap tech that I would rather not trade ("We Fear You Are Being Too Advanced" reasons).
I immediately signed open borders with Washington knowing that, since we were connected via roads, we would gain trade routes immediately. (3 AI's beat me to writing IIRC). Oh, and the ninth AI turned out to be Zara Yaqob (Creative/Organized). Now, while Zara tends to be a huge threat, I received a lucky break in this map because Zara's stuck on his own peninsula!
Unfortunately, I couldn't sign open borders with Tokugawa yet. He was the first to Alphabet, by the way. It seems like that technology is one he tends to beeline.
That's odd, why's Washington's worker in my territory? Thanks for the roads anyway. Oh, and Joao II is now up to eight cities.
Another 50 turn report. The largest civs report again? At least we're eighth, past Shaka.
Hannibal demanded that I switch to Buddhism. Despite not being Spiritual, I accepted, since it was the dominant religion. I had actually held off converting to Buddhism until someone came and demanded me, so I would get an extra +1 diplomacy point with the inquisitor (Hannibal in this case).
Aw shucks, so that's why Washington wanted roads. He built a junk city (although it would later have iron).
Alemanni was the barbarian city that prevented me from expanding along the coast. I had two axes there waiting for Washington to come and attack (and fail) with his troops. The plan didn't exactly work out as expected, since Zara, being the clever guy he was, had an archer waiting for Washington's troops to do the same thing! And since he comes before me in the turn order after Washington ....
What to do, what to do ... ?
(Joao II has 11 cities now incidentally.)
[To be continued in next post.]
Round 2: 3000 BC to 750 BC [90 Turns] - Exploration, Expansion, and a Laconic War (Part II)
My axemen next to the city attacked Zara's wounded archer at 86% odds, and failed. Fortunately, the next axe finished the job and Alemanni was razed. Oh, and Zara happened to bribe Shaka against me the following turn. Whatever.
Even so, I researched Archery after finishing Aesthetics (solely for the trade value, I'm not planning on finishing any of the wonders Aesthetics offers me anytime soon). It was a one - turn technology anyway.
I could finally start tech brokering. First up - Hannibal.
He shouldn't trade away Aesthetics to anyone since it would be a semi - monopoly.
I also had Tokugawa join the war. The trade below was solely intended for the purpose of getting the AI's angry at each other. I wasn't at all worried about the damage that Zara or Shaka could ever send me. Kind of weird, isn't it? Furthermore, Tokugawa can be counted on NOT trading Aesthetics away so I can still use it in the future in trades. The only AI Tokugawa is pleased with is Hannibal, and since I just gave Aesthetics to him, Tokugawa has nothing to give him! Aesthetics will still be useful for trades.
I hastily founded two more cities by the coast. For the price of a phony war with Zara, I'd say that it was well worth it to get the cities.
Unfortunately, Hastings would run into cultural problems with San Francisco.
Washington was the only AI without Alphabet (and Mysticism!) so I took advantage of this to gain Mathematics. Not only is Mathematics a great technology, but it also means that my first Great Scientist can bulb Philosophy if necessary. That didn't happen, though.
After finishing up Polytheism manually, I next selected Masonry as the next technology. And my first Great Scientist was born in 750 BC! I'm not sure if this is early, late, or normal. I had him build an academy. The extra science cut down Masonry's research time by one turn, and extra culture wouldn't hurt to pressure Chicago.
And so, I decided to end this lengthy but exciting round. Zara and Shaka have both had enough of the "war" and are each willing to sign peace for Aesthetics.
I killed 1 Zulu scout (with my exploring warrior) and 1 Ethiopian scout (again with the same exploring warrior). It just goes to show that sometimes deity AI's just don't offer much resistance.
State of the World - 750 BC
Espionage (I can see Washington's research - Calendar):
Top 5 cities and wonders (Hannibal and Tokugawa are the wonder builders in this game):
London, size 9 and growing. Any suggestions on what we should be building? Workboats for exploration? Wonders for failure cash? Archers? Axemen?
I decided to stop the round here since I'm going to have to make a critical decision here. As you can see, I've got 5 decent cities right now. While that's nice, it's probably not enough for me to win this game. Furthermore, I am Charismatic, Protective, and have ivory, so I think it makes sense to try and tech Horseback Riding and Construction, so I can have a cataplut + war elephant + axemen war vs. Washington (I really want to get rid of San Francisco!).
What do you think?
For research, I'm thinking of Construction -> HBR (better if I can get it in a trade) -> Literature (for the Great Library with Washington's marble). York should get the next Great Scientist, in 45 turns though.
Separate names with a comma.