ALC Game 15: Ottoman/Mehmed II

Sisiutil

All Leader Challenger
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All Leaders Challenge Game 15:

mehmedii06sm.jpg

Pre-Game Thread

Starting Position (this post, below)
Round 1: 4000 BC to 2260 BC
Round 2: 2260 BC to 580 BC
Round 3: 580 BC to 410 AD
Round 4: 410 AD to 1280 AD
Round 5: 1280 AD to 1358 AD
Round 6: 1358 AD to 1520 AD
Round 7: 1520 AD to 1836 AD

The idea of the All Leaders Challenge is that I'm going to play a game with each of the Civ IV leaders--mostly the less popular ones--that I haven't tried before. With the help of all the posters who participate, I will attempt to make the most of the leader's unique characteristics: traits, starting techs, unit, and building. Aside from the leader, the other game settings are kept constant, at their defaults, for the sake of comparison--although I'm introducing a couple of variations starting with this game (see below). I will post the saved game files, screenshots, and status reports here as the game progresses. Everyone then has a chance to chime in with their strategy ideas, or voice their frustration (or glee) when I make a mistake. ;)

Everyone is invited to offer opinions and advice, and to make your own attempt at playing the same game. But if you do play a "shadow game", I kindly request that you refrain from posting spoilers--i.e. any facts or even hints about the map, opponents, and so on--before I'm there myself. I'm trying to play the game as authentically as possible.

In this ALC game, I'll be playing as Mehmed II, leader of the Ottoman Empire. I'm playing the game using the Warlords expansion pack (complete with the 2.08 patch). The difficulty level is Monarch, the map is Fractal , and the speed is Epic .

I should also let you know that unlike the previous games with fractal maps, I have not had someone check this one for an isolated start. Mehmed doesn't have an early UU, so I don't see an isolated start as being an issue like it would be for Kublai Khan. It may, in fact, be very informative to have an isolated start. (Of course, now that I've said that, watch me turn up on a Pangaea map!)

Here are all of the game settings:

ALC15_4000BC_01.jpg


And here's a look at the start:

ALC15_4000BC_02.jpg


Well, in the pre-game thread, we talked about growing quickly to take advantage of both Mehmed's Expansionist trait and his happiness-granting Unique Building, the Hammam. We also considered researching Pottery very early on to get a head start on a cottage economy.

I think this start bodes well for those ideas. I have rice, which our first worker can farm immediately since Mehmed starts with Agriculture. Furthermore, we have at least 2 sugar tiles, both beside the river. They can be farmed and will yield the same amount of food as they will with a plantation (4). Riverside grassland tiles are my favourite locations for cottages. We also have 4 hills (1 plains, 3 grassland) for decent production along with several forests for chopping. All that empty plains and grassland bodes well for a hidden resource. And, of course, there's a goody hut!

I frankly don't see much point in moving. This is not a spectacular start, but it's a very good one, and I don't see a more appealing location nearby. Well, the plains hill to the northwest is mildly tempting, but I suspect there will be tiles over there that I wouldn't want in the capital's fat cross. Looks like we're north of the equator, but not by too much, going by the jungle I see in the fog to the southwest. That precludes a move in that direction--I'd just end up with jungle in the fat cross.

I think the Warrior should move 1SE onto the hill just because it will reveal more tiles. Let the first border expansion pop the goody hut.

Once I settle, I think the first build would be a Warrior for exploration, timed to complete when the city grows to 2 pop, followed by a Worker. Meanwhile, I research Animal Husbandry, then Pottery, then Mining -> Bronze Working.

How does that sound for the opening round of play?
 

Attachments

Seems like a wise move to me. I think that this start should work out well enough for our purposes.
 
> I frankly don't see much point in moving.
Word. Just do it.

> Warrior for exploration, timed to complete when the city grows to 2 pop, followed by a Worker
Word, and popping your fat cross will let you use the plains forest hill for the Worker hammer bonus.

> Meanwhile, I research Animal Husbandry, then Pottery, then Mining -> Bronze Working.
No reason to start with one you won't use. I think Mining -> BW -> AH -> Pottery would give you stuff when you most want it. Until the first settler is out I think it would be better to work 4FP tiles than cottages, unless you're really hot to chop it instead of relying on worked tiles. BW and AH before Pottery would ensure that you could send the first settler to the good stuff.
 
Not an amazing start but far from bad. Chances are you have horses, bronze, or iron in your fat cross because you only have three resources visible. I'd expect another foodsource or luxury in those tiles in the fat cross to the south. Lots of grassland for cottaging if you were running a CE, but i'd expect SE to be the way to go as ottomans, maybe not initially but later in the game once you have HR, CS, and aqueducts. Might I ask why you'd want AH first? Do the barbarians start showing up earlier on monarch or somthing?
 
Settle in place.

Wait on AH. You have enough food production that you'll want to get to BW ASAP for Slavery. After that, go for Pottery unless you don't see a Copper resource to nab with your second city.

EDIT: Changed my mind. AH before Pottery for sure.
 
Niiiiiice. A solid start that will produce a strong, well-balanced capital...not to mention a fairly sizable one. You look to be in one of the temperate zones just north of the equator too, given the sugar. Nice again....expansive will mitigate initial unhealthiness from jungles, and that river looks pretty long too. Might need a name, as it could well be the cradle of Turkish civlization...at least until the assimilation begins:borg:

Oh, and don't worry about AH. In fact, I'd say Pottery should be coming pretty early. Once that rice and some of the sugar is farmed, this sucker is going to grow like a weed. Pottery and Mining-BW should be your immediate priorities, IMO, unless an AH resource shows up in the fog....goddamn....just think of the growth if there're PIGS out there:eek:
 
If there were a lot of flood plains, I would say animal husb.--pottery--mining--BW while building worker first. Since not I would go towards BW, then back to husbandry and pottery.
 
Also settle in place.

Just curious, do you have someone checking your map to see if you are isolated, and what do you do if you are. I like fractal also, but lately I have been getting isolated starts on crazy small islands. While it might be a good learning experience, it could also be rather boring.
 
Is that coast up there beyond the grassland hill to the north or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

GS
 
Agree with the consensus.

Settle in Place.

Research Pottery a little later to give you more idea of where second city should be placed.
 
Is it me or does it look like coast or a lake to the north?

A good possibility of an isolated or small continent start?

Mining or Pottery 1st, definitely.

Move the Warrior N or NE top check out the coast/lake, you won't find much moving towards the hill to your SE, because you sight is blocked off by the forest.
 
Why not move the warrior first, to the hill to see if there's anything interesting eastward, before even touching your settler? Chances are you will not find anything to pry you from your starting point, but who knows? You might find a [insert nice resource here, maybe a riverside wheat or something]. Of course that means that you lose a riverside grassland tile in exchange for the [whatever resource] and a riverside plains forest, but you also can chop that riverside plains forest for production early on.

EDIT: Oops didn't see that you were already planning on moving the warrior. Well why not do that and then give us more information to work with?

It's looking like a good start even if the warrior finds nothing.
 
> I frankly don't see much point in moving.
Word. Just do it.

> Warrior for exploration, timed to complete when the city grows to 2 pop, followed by a Worker
Word, and popping your fat cross will let you use the plains forest hill for the Worker hammer bonus.

> Meanwhile, I research Animal Husbandry, then Pottery, then Mining -> Bronze Working.
No reason to start with one you won't use. I think Mining -> BW -> AH -> Pottery would give you stuff when you most want it. Until the first settler is out I think it would be better to work 4FP tiles than cottages, unless you're really hot to chop it instead of relying on worked tiles. BW and AH before Pottery would ensure that you could send the first settler to the good stuff.

Sounds like an excellent analysis to me. Why differ from it?

I am always tempted BIG time to settle on plains hills, but this is smells like hidden horses, bronze or probably iron later on.
 
Once I settle, I think the first build would be a Warrior for exploration, timed to complete when the city grows to 2 pop, followed by a Worker. Meanwhile, I research Animal Husbandry, then Pottery, then Mining -> Bronze Working.

There is no real reason to wait with worker. Getting it out there asap is just soo much stronger it is not funny. I also advocate going mining -> BW first as that allows your worker to go farm-> mine-> chop for settler which is fairly powerfull imo. going for pottery early for cottages doesnt realy fit that well in with a SE but it is amazing for getting up those cheap grannries which you would likely want to have(whipped!) before you grow for the 3rd time as they only take half pop. Remember to get it done before your halffinished with growing to take max advantage off it going a build order in the line of worker->warrior->settler->grannary->warrior/barracks depending whip another worker(with an expancive leader there is no reason whatosever to not whip most of your workers as the food to hammer conversion this way is quite extreeme) then get out another settler after you have some more protection. Having the worker Farming the rice mining the hill chopping some wood then farming over the suggar for some awesome early growth titles which later can be used to used to run sevral specialists. Building workers the hard way especailly when you allready have a grannary and you mostly have high food sources is just way slower than growing the city then whipping it. I am not sure the hammers needed to whip on epic but on normal you need to invest 25% of the hammer needed for the worker before you can whip it for one pop, i assume this is the same for epic. Of course you can whip for 2 pop in some cities with low production since that give excelent overflow, just remember to invest some hammers first ;) . I recently looked over whipping as expancive and it realy is an entierly different world. If you get into early war i would like to see you whipping out axemen or simmilar using the whip trick(this also works for cattapults later). Invest some hammers into the axeman, on normal speed this is 1-4 hammers(1-10 for pults) so very low then whip the axeman for almost max overflow so you can produce 2 axemen/catapults on 3 turns. This is the strongest part of the expancive trait imo and not showcasing how you can whip out hordes of workers in no time would be a shame imo. You might also need it to clear out the jungle so you can farm it over for more whipping ;) . Good luck by finding the fastest way to gunpowder though i do strongly advice you do not skip over construction/currency(espeically as this gives markets which is nice running an SE + you can allways use extra happines). Good luck.

For research path i would probably go with mining > BW > pottery > AH to first get the whip enabled(heck and we get chopping too!) then pottery for the awesome expancive granaries. Converting other reasources into hammers especially in greater numbers than the hammers give themselves is some of the most powerfull mechanics in the game, it would be a shame to not use them properly espeically since they mesh so well with your leaders traits.
 
Is this going to be a lonely game? Survey says...

Spoiler :
Yes. More details if you want em: (nothing too revealing)
Spoiler :
It's going to be very lonely, no contact 'till astronomy, but your island is quite large if you want to pursue an isolationist space race it's quite doable.
 
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