Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sisiutil, Sep 12, 2007.
Couldn't have been another GA, he'd have needed 2 GP to pull it off at that point...
So you eventually captured Scotland Yard?
No, he must have gotten a 2nd GP somehow when I wasn't looking, because Rome's had GA's comin' outta their yin-yang.
check the log... I've heard someone who had BTS had two golden ages by using a GSpy for the 1st one and another single Great Person for the 2nd one then his 3rd golden age required 2 Great People but he could never prove it lol.
Apparently, all of you view the effects of all GP even GSpies in a positive frame. A very well known, notorious GSpy can surely "inspire citizens" to work harder and more efficiently knowing someone always "overseering". Actually given the nature of the typical BC era goverment, this manner of "inspiration" seems much more realistic to me.
As for AI's not fully using this caveeat or that abuse i'd be a lot happier with the experience iget playing CIV4 if such efforts were aimed at nerfing such tricks.
What I meant by Joao's city was...
Wow. i feel stupid. Though the land mass was surrounding a huge lake and Guimardas (no idea what its called) was on an isthmus. Heh.
How do you have a GA with 1 GP?! is this a GSpy ability or new to BTS?! Also, how did Augustus get two GAs? If 1 GP is needed for Golden Age 1, then 2 should be required for Golden Age 2...So how'd he get 3 Great people?
Weird stuff happens. In my current game, Pacal got a great general -- when he wasn't at war.
Well, that's possible either at Fascism or through privateering.
Yep. They lowered the ammount of great people needed for your first GA in an attempt to make it a bit more useful and able to be done earlier. I quite like the changes - means you have a varieity of stratagies early on - especially from a Great Spy which is quite a... Specialised GP.
Good point. Damn fascists.
Round 4: 65 BC to 640 AD (47 Turns)
Well, I considered your advice about researching Machinery next, but...
Yikes! 41 turns? I don't think so. Currency was half that. It also brought home that I still needed more infrastructure, whatever the threats to the nascent Spanish empire might be. So I crossed my fingers and hoped that my happy Jewish continent would remain that for just a little while longer. I built some Libraries and Monasteries instead of military units, at first. Then after Currency was done, I pursued Aesthetics and Literature. Yep, I had my eye on my favourite wonder, the Great Library.
Currency, of course, opened up the possibility of trading techs for gold, which would in turn fund deficit research of more techs. I had a bit of a tech lead on Augustus (though he still refused to cough up Calendar), and a substantial one on Joao. Even so, they managed to research a couple of typical AI techs on me. So I went to Joao, my more backwards and therefore less threatening neighbour, with a proposition:
I didn't really have the hammers to spare for an expensive wonder like the Apostolic Palace that can't be accelerated by any resources. But I thought, what if I outsource the building of the palace to Portugal? It should mean fewer units to face in the long run, too. Of course, it meant my future enemy would control the AP voting at first, but I figured that was nothing that a few Catapults and Swordsmen wouldn't be able to eventually fix.
Speaking of trading, it's amazing what the AI leaders will give up for a strategic tech:
This is starting to have the feel of a semi-exploit. I've noticed that the AI won't give you all its gold for a resource anymore, and that's a step in the right direction. But Blake and his compatriots need to do something about this.
Not that it's prevented me for taking advantage of it. Come on, I'm potentially facing a two-front war here.
I did take the time to build a wonder, but what with forges and copper, it came cheap:
And it was built in Seville to help secure its ownership of that corn tile, which Augustus is competing for. I'm planning on building the Moai Statues in Seville too. It will then get a commerce bonus on all those coastal water tiles (9 of them, in fact) until Astronomy, and a production bonus for the whole game. It's turning out to be a good production city--Heroic Epic, perhaps, since it'll be able to build ships too?
I wasn't done tech trading with Joao:
No, he wouldn't take Alphabet and Priesthood for it; he must have been researching Alphabet at the time. I switched into Hereditary Rule pretty much immediately.
I also built a few units, at least, and I took care of that northern barb city. I captured a Worker for my trouble, but the city I razed, since it wouldn't have claimed the stone tile for a very long time:
Meanwhile, I had spread Christianity to Madrid with the free Missionary and built a Christian temple there. This accelerated the arrival of my 2nd Great Prophet, whom I used for the Jewish shrine:
Meanwhile I settled the north.
I also founded Santiago just a little south of Toledo, on the coastal sugar tile near the horses.
I didn't found a resource-free city in the central jungle just yet; I figured that could wait. But with my borders encroaching on most of that territory, I figured it was safe to do this:
I opened borders with Augustus as well. It would help relations and the economy too. I'll keep an eye open for a Portugese or Roman Settler heading for the few free tiles in the middle of my territory, but I might leave them be. It would save me a Settler, after all.
You might have noticed that with Literature out of the way, I was researching another economic tech:
However, I haven't built any courthouses yet, and I may not have time to do so for awhile. I did, however, change civics to Caste System. Mainly I wanted to avoid the potential revolts in Madrid.
And Joao did, indeed, build the Apostolic Palace. Unfortunately, he's also running it:
I'll have to fix that before too long, though with all of us being Jewish I don't think he can cause too much trouble at first. However, I'll have to be prepared, if I go to war with either neighbour, to be voted into peace. Joao's possession of the palace, I think, argues in favour of him being my first target.
Fortunately, I had my own wonder to build:
It took 15 turns with Madrid's large population, good production tiles, and, of course, marble. I didn't even bother chopping a single forest for it. I figure I'll save them for chopping units.
And that is more or less where the round ended, with me researching Machinery, at long last, at the end of the round rather than at the beginning. Here's a look at the map:
And the tech board:
Augustus appears to have researched Metal Casting on his own. He did earn a Great Spy and I thought I saw something about another Golden Age for him, but I should go back through the game log to check. He'd have needed another GP of another type for that. Maybe he did use the GSpy for infiltration and stole MC from me? If so, he's not doing a very good job--I still have several techs on him.
And finally, the power graph:
I say it's time to finally do something about this, and Joao's ownership of the AP. I think the next round requires a build-up to war; several units should go into the build queues, followed by a switch to Theocracy and the production of several Level 3 units.
Should I research Civil Service after Machinery, or Engineering? The latter would, after all, enable Spain's UB, and just in time for what looks like a series of wars to unite the continent under Isabella's flag. It also enables some useful units. Trebs are, of course, very handy, and since Joao's only strategic resource is horses, Pikemen will be very useful indeed. I've built Walls in several cities already in anticipation of Castles. So I'm leaning towards Engineering to get the most out of the UB.
I can't tell from the map but how many cottages is Madrid working, if it were producing more commerce I'd pursue CS but since your aiming for war maybe Engineering would be better then again, if you go for CS you can get maces and later use your level 4 Trebs against Julius...Tough choice between Maces or Trebs.
Make sure to build ships to check what up north of the peeks, I reckon no ones there or someone would've contacted us by now... I'm hoping for some nice improved barb cities.
Btw which city did Joao build the AP? IF you're going to War claim that city first before he puts forward a resolution to prevent you from finishing him off.
I think war is at hand and in the spirit of the ALC the UB should be utilised asap.
I have been using the old que build technique myself recently after learning it from the ALCs and am a very big fan. Main issue here might be that we won't get the UB till engineering, which means our castles will need to be built before we switch and let our treb's complete. So another vote for engineering before CS.
Highly promoted Spanish UU is excellent which can take non-hill city even without removing defensive bonus. but we are gonna utilise both UB and UU in this game, right?
As BlackWaltz already mentioned in BTS they lowered the cost of the first GA to only one Great Person. I just wanted to add that GA's now also allow you to change civics without anarchy and produce +100% in Great Person Points ( GPP ). Add on the new Mausoleum of Maussollos wonder which increases Golden Ages' length by 50% and Golden Ages really rock.
Maces have their uses, but deploying the (darn hard to benefit from long enough) UB is an ALCs goal.
As long as we stick to Judaism as the state religion we are immune to all votes against our interest. Save ofcourse for Joao's attempt to an outright religious victory, that should tke him a while to even attempt however.
Joao may have more directly warlike immidiate plans however, judging by his visible cats.
I'm a bit disapointed by the lack of exploration via sea, dont you think knowing the size and quality of the land of your continent is a priority?
Be warned, in a recent game of mine I took the city with the AP in it and a couple of turns later an AP proposal popped up for vote to return the AP city to it's original owner. I had to defy it to keep the city. Just because you capture the city with the AP in it doesn't mean that the resident can't continue using it against you. Be prepared to deal with a lot of unhappiness when you have to defy two resolutions, the first when Joao tries to stop the war, and the second when he tries to get his city back.
The unhappiness wasn't so bad in my case, because that was the only city I had with the AP religion. But in your case, every city you have will be pissed because the world despises you. You'll need to have everything you need for the war pre-built, because you're not going to have much productivity once things get going, until you capture enough Portuguese Jews to control the votes.
I'm not sure if Joao will be able to use the AP to bring Rome in against you once you defy an AP vote, but you might want to be ready for that as well.
This is going to be interesting to watch.
If you go to war, make sure the first city you take is the one with the palace. Or if that's not possible, make it your first objective.
Not true. In my current game I control the AP and Ragnar is of the same religion, and I used an AP vote to stop him when he declared war on me, so being the same religion as the AP doesn't make you immune. Count on Joao to do the same to try and stop the war. I'm pretty sure he can also use the AP to try to return Lisbon to him once Sisiutil takes it. I know I've had an AI try that on me, but I wasn't the same religion as the AP that time, so I'm not sure if that vote can be used against a full member. Of course, Sisiutil won't be a full member after he defies the "stop the war against Joao" vote.
For the reasons others have stated, if you go to war against Joao (and likely Augustus as well), if you take any of their cities, you should raze them or else they will be reassigned with the AP.
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