Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Heh. Alternatively, I can just finish the game before I leave, which doesn't leave as much up to chance. 
ALC Game #26: Willem van Oranje/Dutch
- Thread starter Lord Parkin
- Start date
SillyGoat
Warlord
Heh. Alternatively, I can just finish the game before I leave, which doesn't leave as much up to chance.
*cough* Then how about an update?
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Nope, I'm not going there. Although that facility sounds interesting.
I know, I know! It's FINALLY ready. Took me WAY longer than I expected to write up, but I hope it's been worth the wait!*cough* Then how about an update?
Give me a few minutes to transfer it...
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Wars and Wonders: 2725 BC to 1375 BC (58 turns) - Part 1 of 2
Before I started this round, there was a long debate about whether to focus our efforts on rushing Liz or to focus on getting the Great Lighthouse. There was a roughly even split: half of you wanted me to try out the wonder route, and the rest of you had an urge to try to crush Liz as soon as possible. There was even one guy who wanted me to see if I could actually manage to pull off both simultaneously! (Crazy, right?!
) So what did I finally decide to do? Read on to find out!
I started off this round by reviewing the actions we'd agreed upon. First things first: we decided to get our first Warrior to explore to our west for Copper, and make our Worker start a chop on the forest he was on. We also wanted to start research on The Wheel, so that we could start building roads to hook up those nice Horses. I did all of these things. As for Amsterdam's build queue, there was fairly universal agreement to a Warrior or two followed by a Settler straight away at size 4, so that's what I decided to do.
Alexander founded his second city. Barbarian animals were starting to appear in swarms, making it look likely that our exploring Warrior wouldn't survive too long...
However, luckily our guy survived the mauling (he had 73% odds of survival due to the forested hill). I gave him a Woodsman I promotion, in the hope that he can get to Woodsman II soon enough. (I love having 2-move Warriors to explore in the early game, since typically much of the map is forest or jungle.)
We finished our third Warrior just as Amsterdam grew to pop 4, due to a little micromanagement (switching to the Fish instead of the Clams for one turn), and made a start on the Settler for our second city.
Alexander switched to Slavery - obviously he just finished Bronze Working. We'll have to keep an eye on that guy, as no doubt he'll have Phalanxes around soon.
I sent one of our Warriors to the south-east to try to see if there was any Copper around there. He confirmed that there wasn't, but got a nasty surprise...
Luckily, he managed to survive the 50% odds, and lived another day.
Next turn, something very interesting happened: Judaism was founded in a distant land, and the following turn Liz switched to Organized Religion! Clearly Hinduism wasn't enough for her, and she wanted to grab another religion. Of course, this only served to make her more of an attractive target, so I began to have thoughts about whether it'd be worth arranging an early Chariot rush after all!
The Wheel was finished, and our Worker began building roads to hook up the Horses. We started researching Sailing next.
Our Settler was finished, and I decided to start on a Worker. After all, we would soon have a second city to improve the land around!
That's when it happened - we got an event that effectively made the decision on whether or not to invade Liz.
A bonus Combat I promotion for spamming out 8 Chariots? Yes, please! I start making plans for a rush: first Barracks, then Chariot after Chariot. Easy enough...
Meanwhile, our Settler was heading west with a single Warrior to try to pick out a spot to block off Liz. We discovered two things quite suddenly, one good and one bad. The good news: Liz had left a space for us to found the Horse-Cow-double Gem site (although it would be cramped). The bad news? A barbarian Archer had appeared right near to where we wanted to move!
At this point I decided to take a big gamble: I moved the Warrior onto the forest next to the Archer. ("What?!?!", I can already hear some of you saying. Yeah, I'm a bit of a risk taker... I find it makes the game more interesting. Sure we could have walked away, but that would have been the boring route!)
Anyway, my reasoning was this: if we founded the city and the barb Archer attacked, our Warrior would only get a 30-35% defence bonus. Therefore, the best chance we had was to take the 50% defence of the jungle. Sure, it was still a risk, but it was almost 50/50 - a lot better than what our odds would be if the Warrior was defending a city.
So what happened?
*Sigh of relief.* The gamble paid off! (Boy, that was lucky... I would have been rather in the poo if I'd got the short end of the stick there. I don't recommend this kind of gamble as a reliable strategy. )
So, Utrecht was founded. Note that I chose its first build as a Worker because it was so important that both existing Workers stayed at the capital to chop forests and build mines - we needed all those Chariots ASAP, or else we risked losing our window of opportunity!
Very aggressive city placement indeed - you wouldn't get away with this in multiplayer! Liz, however, doesn't seem to mind too much, even though our Cultural trait will steal her Horses in very short order. Very sneaky of us!
Judaism spreads in the city almost immediately. Meanwhile, Stonehenge is built in a faraway land by an unknown civ.
Our exploring Warrior defends against a wounded Archer, and wins.
Hinduism spreads in our capital. This is extremely convenient, as it allows Amsterdam to grow to size 6 and (eventually) work an extra mine. Plus it's Liz's religion, which will make her slightly happier with her - not that it'll make a great deal of difference, since we're planning to war with her soon.
Utrecht steals the Horse tile from Elizabeth - hooray, no Chariots for her!
At this point I had a rare moment of idiocy - for some reason I decided that Mysticism would be a good tech to research next. I don't know how I managed that... I must have forgotten that we're Creative.
Sorry guys!
Anyway... we notice that Alex is willing to war with Mao, although we can't afford to bribe him yet. Might be worth considering in future though, to keep him off our backs.
Mao adopts Slavery. Liz founds her third city in an odd location... right next to her second city, and completely skipping the Fish resource. Silly AI.
Amsterdam grows to size 6, and we convert to Hinduism to keep the city happy. We also rearrange tiles to maximise hammers (note I switched to work all the plains-mines as soon as they were completed).
Mysticism was completed (sorry again for my stupidity there!), and we began on Masonry. The Great Wall was completed in a faraway land.
Then we met this guy...
And only a turn or two later, we met Gandhi - who, incidentally, was the one who built the Great Wall.
It didn't take long at all to complete the 8 Chariots necessary to pick up the event reward: a free Combat I promotion for every single Chariot! Quite a nice benefit indeed. (I believe that applies to all existing ones and all future ones - can anyone confirm that?) Note that I deliberately hadn't promoted any of the Chariots before this event occurred, so that the free Combat I promotion wouldn't go to waste.
Our exploring Warrior uncovered a Chinese city. Expert AI placement, as usual... not. (I always cringe to see cities founded on top of Gold resources... such a waste of valuable commerce!)
Continued in the following post...
Before I started this round, there was a long debate about whether to focus our efforts on rushing Liz or to focus on getting the Great Lighthouse. There was a roughly even split: half of you wanted me to try out the wonder route, and the rest of you had an urge to try to crush Liz as soon as possible. There was even one guy who wanted me to see if I could actually manage to pull off both simultaneously! (Crazy, right?!
) So what did I finally decide to do? Read on to find out! I started off this round by reviewing the actions we'd agreed upon. First things first: we decided to get our first Warrior to explore to our west for Copper, and make our Worker start a chop on the forest he was on. We also wanted to start research on The Wheel, so that we could start building roads to hook up those nice Horses. I did all of these things. As for Amsterdam's build queue, there was fairly universal agreement to a Warrior or two followed by a Settler straight away at size 4, so that's what I decided to do.
Alexander founded his second city. Barbarian animals were starting to appear in swarms, making it look likely that our exploring Warrior wouldn't survive too long...
However, luckily our guy survived the mauling (he had 73% odds of survival due to the forested hill). I gave him a Woodsman I promotion, in the hope that he can get to Woodsman II soon enough. (I love having 2-move Warriors to explore in the early game, since typically much of the map is forest or jungle.)
We finished our third Warrior just as Amsterdam grew to pop 4, due to a little micromanagement (switching to the Fish instead of the Clams for one turn), and made a start on the Settler for our second city.
Alexander switched to Slavery - obviously he just finished Bronze Working. We'll have to keep an eye on that guy, as no doubt he'll have Phalanxes around soon.
I sent one of our Warriors to the south-east to try to see if there was any Copper around there. He confirmed that there wasn't, but got a nasty surprise...
Luckily, he managed to survive the 50% odds, and lived another day.
Next turn, something very interesting happened: Judaism was founded in a distant land, and the following turn Liz switched to Organized Religion! Clearly Hinduism wasn't enough for her, and she wanted to grab another religion. Of course, this only served to make her more of an attractive target, so I began to have thoughts about whether it'd be worth arranging an early Chariot rush after all!
The Wheel was finished, and our Worker began building roads to hook up the Horses. We started researching Sailing next.
Our Settler was finished, and I decided to start on a Worker. After all, we would soon have a second city to improve the land around!
That's when it happened - we got an event that effectively made the decision on whether or not to invade Liz.
A bonus Combat I promotion for spamming out 8 Chariots? Yes, please!
I start making plans for a rush: first Barracks, then Chariot after Chariot. Easy enough...Meanwhile, our Settler was heading west with a single Warrior to try to pick out a spot to block off Liz. We discovered two things quite suddenly, one good and one bad. The good news: Liz had left a space for us to found the Horse-Cow-double Gem site (although it would be cramped). The bad news? A barbarian Archer had appeared right near to where we wanted to move!
At this point I decided to take a big gamble: I moved the Warrior onto the forest next to the Archer. ("What?!?!", I can already hear some of you saying. Yeah, I'm a bit of a risk taker... I find it makes the game more interesting.
Sure we could have walked away, but that would have been the boring route!)Anyway, my reasoning was this: if we founded the city and the barb Archer attacked, our Warrior would only get a 30-35% defence bonus. Therefore, the best chance we had was to take the 50% defence of the jungle. Sure, it was still a risk, but it was almost 50/50 - a lot better than what our odds would be if the Warrior was defending a city.
So what happened?
*Sigh of relief.* The gamble paid off! (Boy, that was lucky... I would have been rather in the poo if I'd got the short end of the stick there. I don't recommend this kind of gamble as a reliable strategy.
)So, Utrecht was founded. Note that I chose its first build as a Worker because it was so important that both existing Workers stayed at the capital to chop forests and build mines - we needed all those Chariots ASAP, or else we risked losing our window of opportunity!
Very aggressive city placement indeed - you wouldn't get away with this in multiplayer!
Liz, however, doesn't seem to mind too much, even though our Cultural trait will steal her Horses in very short order. Very sneaky of us!Judaism spreads in the city almost immediately. Meanwhile, Stonehenge is built in a faraway land by an unknown civ.
Our exploring Warrior defends against a wounded Archer, and wins.
Hinduism spreads in our capital. This is extremely convenient, as it allows Amsterdam to grow to size 6 and (eventually) work an extra mine. Plus it's Liz's religion, which will make her slightly happier with her - not that it'll make a great deal of difference, since we're planning to war with her soon.
Utrecht steals the Horse tile from Elizabeth - hooray, no Chariots for her!
At this point I had a rare moment of idiocy - for some reason I decided that Mysticism would be a good tech to research next. I don't know how I managed that... I must have forgotten that we're Creative.
Sorry guys!Anyway... we notice that Alex is willing to war with Mao, although we can't afford to bribe him yet. Might be worth considering in future though, to keep him off our backs.
Spoiler :
Mao adopts Slavery. Liz founds her third city in an odd location... right next to her second city, and completely skipping the Fish resource. Silly AI.
Amsterdam grows to size 6, and we convert to Hinduism to keep the city happy. We also rearrange tiles to maximise hammers (note I switched to work all the plains-mines as soon as they were completed).
Mysticism was completed (sorry again for my stupidity there!), and we began on Masonry. The Great Wall was completed in a faraway land.
Then we met this guy...
Spoiler :
And only a turn or two later, we met Gandhi - who, incidentally, was the one who built the Great Wall.
Spoiler :
It didn't take long at all to complete the 8 Chariots necessary to pick up the event reward: a free Combat I promotion for every single Chariot! Quite a nice benefit indeed. (I believe that applies to all existing ones and all future ones - can anyone confirm that?) Note that I deliberately hadn't promoted any of the Chariots before this event occurred, so that the free Combat I promotion wouldn't go to waste.
Our exploring Warrior uncovered a Chinese city. Expert AI placement, as usual... not. (I always cringe to see cities founded on top of Gold resources... such a waste of valuable commerce!)
Continued in the following post...
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Wars and Wonders: 2725 BC to 1375 BC (58 turns) - Part 2 of 2
At this point, I carefully analysed the situation with Elizabeth. She didn't have any strategic resources, so was limited to only Archers for defence. Also, her three cities were all relatively exposed, thanks to the excellent placement of Utrecht and our Creative trait. So it seemed like 8 Chariots, with the free Combat I promotion, might just be enough to take the capital and perhaps another city. Because of this, and because I was keen to see if I actually could pull off the rush + Great Lighthouse simultaneously, I stopped producing Chariots at this point and started on the Lighthouse prerequisite that I'd need for the wonder.
We encountered an event that slightly soured relations with Liz. Funny, because at this stage we really couldn't care less about our relations with her.
The Lighthouse was finished in Amsterdam, and we began on the big one: the Great Lighthouse.
It was about this time that our Chariots were in position, so we broke the news to Liz.
And so the war began...
Notice our horrible economic situation. For a while we were actually breaking even at 0% gold! Luckily it didn't get worse.
Liz had an Archer out in open ground, which we quickly killed before it could head into a city. We also captured a Worker that was within reach of one of our Chariots.
York had 2 Archers defending it, and fell with the loss of 2 Chariots...
I debated whether to keep the city, since it was obviously in a suboptimal location, but ended up deciding to keep it. Partially because it saved a Settler, partially because it was a good place to base an attack on London from, and partially because it was a holy city after all.
Some of our Chariots arrived to scout out London. The city had 3 Archers defending it, so it would be a tough nut to crack. We'd need to wait for all the rest of our Chariots to heal before attempting any attack. Liz had Slavery now though, so I was worried about whether she'd pop-rush - any more units and we'd probably be out of luck on an attack.
Interestingly, Liz built 2 Galleys while I watched - I have no idea why. Silly AI I guess.
By the way, while all this was going on in the west, over to the east there were an alarming number of barbarians turning up. I saw Warriors, Archers, and even a (wounded) Spearman. I was worried that we'd need to delay the Great Lighthouse to build a few defenders. As luck would have it though, our friends the Greeks had an Archer in the area, which cleaned up all the barb threats over the next few turns quite nicely. This saved us wasting turns on the Great Lighthouse.
Unfortunately, just as we were moving in on London, Liz produced a fourth Archer. At this point I had to make a decision: take a gamble, or accept peace. There was no sense in waiting it out, since the number of Archers in London would increase faster than the rate at which I could build Chariots to destroy them.
Of course, being me, I took the gamble. 6 highly promoted Chariots vs 4 Archers... even so, only 25% odds for many battles. Luckily though, the RNG smiled on us. We only suffered 2 losses, and managed to take the holy city of London!
We signed Open Borders with Alex, so our Warrior could pass through his lands (screenshot a little bit ahead).
We received notice of the "most cultured" civilizations of the world. No surprise that the single "unknown" civilization is doing well, since by elimination he/she must be the one with Stonehenge.
Our four remaining Chariots headed up north to the one remaining English city of Nottingham, but found three Archers defending. We'd already captured the city of London, and had some fairly experienced Chariots in the field (one with Combat IV). It simply wasn't worth gambling in that situation, so we sued for peace with Liz. (We asked her to change civics just for the heck of it... sure she might change back in 5 turns, but at least it'd waste some of her time in Anarchy.)
The very next turn, we got the Great Lighthouse! Who said you couldn't both rush an AI and get an early wonder on Immortal?
And that brings us to the end of this round! I arranged a deal with Gandhi right at the end (Pig + Wheat for Clam + Cow). There's the possibility of getting Gold from Hammurabi for Horses, but I decided to leave that up for discussion.
City screens at the end of the round:
Overviews of the known world, with and without resources:
Two city spots that I suggest we give priority to obtaining (one of them a barbarian city):
Finally, demographics and top cities:
So, that's it! Basically, at the cost of early development of Utrecht and an insane amount of chopping at Amsterdam, we managed to successfully rush Liz's two most powerful cities as well as to simultaneously build the Great Lighthouse!
Points for discussion:
At this point, I carefully analysed the situation with Elizabeth. She didn't have any strategic resources, so was limited to only Archers for defence. Also, her three cities were all relatively exposed, thanks to the excellent placement of Utrecht and our Creative trait. So it seemed like 8 Chariots, with the free Combat I promotion, might just be enough to take the capital and perhaps another city. Because of this, and because I was keen to see if I actually could pull off the rush + Great Lighthouse simultaneously, I stopped producing Chariots at this point and started on the Lighthouse prerequisite that I'd need for the wonder.
We encountered an event that slightly soured relations with Liz. Funny, because at this stage we really couldn't care less about our relations with her.
The Lighthouse was finished in Amsterdam, and we began on the big one: the Great Lighthouse.
It was about this time that our Chariots were in position, so we broke the news to Liz.
Spoiler :
And so the war began...
Notice our horrible economic situation. For a while we were actually breaking even at 0% gold! Luckily it didn't get worse.
Liz had an Archer out in open ground, which we quickly killed before it could head into a city. We also captured a Worker that was within reach of one of our Chariots.
York had 2 Archers defending it, and fell with the loss of 2 Chariots...
I debated whether to keep the city, since it was obviously in a suboptimal location, but ended up deciding to keep it. Partially because it saved a Settler, partially because it was a good place to base an attack on London from, and partially because it was a holy city after all.
Some of our Chariots arrived to scout out London. The city had 3 Archers defending it, so it would be a tough nut to crack. We'd need to wait for all the rest of our Chariots to heal before attempting any attack. Liz had Slavery now though, so I was worried about whether she'd pop-rush - any more units and we'd probably be out of luck on an attack.
Interestingly, Liz built 2 Galleys while I watched - I have no idea why. Silly AI I guess.
By the way, while all this was going on in the west, over to the east there were an alarming number of barbarians turning up. I saw Warriors, Archers, and even a (wounded) Spearman. I was worried that we'd need to delay the Great Lighthouse to build a few defenders. As luck would have it though, our friends the Greeks had an Archer in the area, which cleaned up all the barb threats over the next few turns quite nicely. This saved us wasting turns on the Great Lighthouse.
Unfortunately, just as we were moving in on London, Liz produced a fourth Archer. At this point I had to make a decision: take a gamble, or accept peace. There was no sense in waiting it out, since the number of Archers in London would increase faster than the rate at which I could build Chariots to destroy them.
Of course, being me, I took the gamble. 6 highly promoted Chariots vs 4 Archers... even so, only 25% odds for many battles. Luckily though, the RNG smiled on us. We only suffered 2 losses, and managed to take the holy city of London!
We signed Open Borders with Alex, so our Warrior could pass through his lands (screenshot a little bit ahead).
We received notice of the "most cultured" civilizations of the world. No surprise that the single "unknown" civilization is doing well, since by elimination he/she must be the one with Stonehenge.
Our four remaining Chariots headed up north to the one remaining English city of Nottingham, but found three Archers defending. We'd already captured the city of London, and had some fairly experienced Chariots in the field (one with Combat IV). It simply wasn't worth gambling in that situation, so we sued for peace with Liz. (We asked her to change civics just for the heck of it... sure she might change back in 5 turns, but at least it'd waste some of her time in Anarchy.)
Spoiler :
The very next turn, we got the Great Lighthouse! Who said you couldn't both rush an AI and get an early wonder on Immortal?
And that brings us to the end of this round! I arranged a deal with Gandhi right at the end (Pig + Wheat for Clam + Cow). There's the possibility of getting Gold from Hammurabi for Horses, but I decided to leave that up for discussion.
City screens at the end of the round:
Overviews of the known world, with and without resources:
Two city spots that I suggest we give priority to obtaining (one of them a barbarian city):
Finally, demographics and top cities:
So, that's it! Basically, at the cost of early development of Utrecht and an insane amount of chopping at Amsterdam, we managed to successfully rush Liz's two most powerful cities as well as to simultaneously build the Great Lighthouse!
Points for discussion:
- We can arrange a deal of Gold for Horses with Hammurabi. Should we? He's fairly far away, so it shouldn't be too dangerous, and it gives us a nice happiness benefit.
- What to do with our various cities?
- Amsterdam: I'm thinking either a few Chariots (to capture that barb city), or else one Chariot (for defence) followed by a Settler (for that Ivory spot). Maybe some Workers too, we need more.
- Utrecht: Obviously we'll want to hook up those Gems ASAP. (I could have been hooking them up now if I hadn't gone for Mysticism... ugh, never mind.) As for builds, I think a few Chariots would be good, to prepare for when we redeclare on Liz. Should we chop out a Barracks first?
- York: Barracks/Chariots too? Alternatively, for some reason I'm tempted to start the Pyramids - although it's probably pointless at this late stage, especially without stone.
- London: This city was made for the Moai Statues, I think. Some happiness issues, but those should be resolved fairly soon. All agreed to start Moai there? The sooner we begin, the sooner we finish. - What to research next? Pottery and Writing seem like high priorities. Maybe Alphabet after that?
- What's the general strategy at this point? I think we finish off Liz quickly (hoping she doesn't manage to escape overseas), and start expanding to the nice city locations around the place. With the Great Lighthouse, settling the coast will be very efficient indeed.
- We're pretty close to a Great General. What to do with him when we get him? Military Instructor in Amsterdam, or something else?
r_rolo1
King of myself
Now you can start ALC 27
azzaman333
meh
Blue dot doesn't look like much of a city. If it were up to me, I'd build where the clams could be claimed.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
All in good time...Now you can start ALC 27
Yeah, it's not much of a city, but it does at least claim Ivory. I'm not sure how many turns until Amsterdam's borders expand... that's probably worth checking, since if it's soon then blue dot isn't really worth founding.
york is just horribly placed... i would have raised it despite its holy status.
speaking of which, why have you built utrecht there? considering you built the GLH, 1SE would have been far superior.
but, aside from the ruining of my dotmap, well done. the game is won.
speaking of which, why have you built utrecht there? considering you built the GLH, 1SE would have been far superior.
but, aside from the ruining of my dotmap, well done. the game is won.
r_rolo1
King of myself
You will need 2 border pops of Amsterdam to get that Ivory in your borders
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Fair enough, each to his own. Personally I prefer not to raze holy cities, since they can come in handy.
Because I built Utrecht before we knew we'd get the Great Lighthouse. Plus, it was very important to build Utrecht there to prevent Liz from getting access to Horses. (Not to mention to block her off from expanding eastwards.)
Thanks. It's certainly starting to look that way.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
No I won't. I'm very familiar with how the 60% border expansion looks.You will need 2 border pops of Amsterdam to get that Ivory in your borders
pigswill
fly (one day)
Best of all is to be lucky and good.
Might be worth getting a galley exploring because overseas cities get the 100% trade route bonus.
Might be worth getting a galley exploring because overseas cities get the 100% trade route bonus.
dirtyparrot
Upholding Brannigan's Law
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 1,841
Seems like you have quite a bit of room to expand east.
Unless Hammurabi is someone's worst enemy, I would be fine in trading horses to him and re-negotiate when you get currency (he's really far away anyway).
I vote for finishing off Liz and getting that great general. The rest of your plan is pretty sound.
Unless Hammurabi is someone's worst enemy, I would be fine in trading horses to him and re-negotiate when you get currency (he's really far away anyway).
I vote for finishing off Liz and getting that great general. The rest of your plan is pretty sound.
Good job, nice writeup too!! I chuckled a couple of times.
On the subject what to do next, make it prio to get some cities in the west, you can always fill up the gaps later, but if you are not carefull Hammu will start settling south pretty quickly.
Elizabeth still got galleys, so if you do not kill her fast either, you might end up with her settling on some other island too.
Teching patterns, do not tech IW to late. Going for writing first is ofcourse a good choice, but getting alphabet afterwards seems more like a gamble, since there is a good chance all the AI's will have it before you do.
IW gives you access to alot of extra land + resources, which is good in the short term to recover.
On the subject what to do next, make it prio to get some cities in the west, you can always fill up the gaps later, but if you are not carefull Hammu will start settling south pretty quickly.
Elizabeth still got galleys, so if you do not kill her fast either, you might end up with her settling on some other island too.
Teching patterns, do not tech IW to late. Going for writing first is ofcourse a good choice, but getting alphabet afterwards seems more like a gamble, since there is a good chance all the AI's will have it before you do.
IW gives you access to alot of extra land + resources, which is good in the short term to recover.
Kev
Hired Goon
An exploring workboat or galley would be very nice - opens up some possible land and some trading perhaps to take advantage of the Great Lighthouse. I'd check the land south of the capital - I see some flood plains there which might be nice. If you can get a city built off-continent you could get some good trade going, and it looks like you can get to that part with a galley.
Have you considered a gp farm city as of yet? London might qualify, but as a Holy City perhaps you'd be best to consider that one for commerce. Perhaps that spot to the south with FP and clams? Tough to get one up being financial since all of these sites look so good commercially...
Not sure I see a huge downside as to the gold for horse trade - Hammy can only build chariots now likely and he might find horses on his own eventually. With iron working in 5 turns from now, you should also be able to quickly get happiness too from the gems, and I'd get that barb city quickly so you can get the ivory for happiness as well (with hunting). I think blue dot can wait a bit since there is no danger of the AI grabbing that spot, but you'll have a better idea of your next city priority if iron shows up as well. I'd probably suggest a few swords around to finish off Liz.
Have you considered a gp farm city as of yet? London might qualify, but as a Holy City perhaps you'd be best to consider that one for commerce. Perhaps that spot to the south with FP and clams? Tough to get one up being financial since all of these sites look so good commercially...
Not sure I see a huge downside as to the gold for horse trade - Hammy can only build chariots now likely and he might find horses on his own eventually. With iron working in 5 turns from now, you should also be able to quickly get happiness too from the gems, and I'd get that barb city quickly so you can get the ivory for happiness as well (with hunting). I think blue dot can wait a bit since there is no danger of the AI grabbing that spot, but you'll have a better idea of your next city priority if iron shows up as well. I'd probably suggest a few swords around to finish off Liz.
Yay you did both! Although obviously the RNG helped you out in the rush, it was still nicely done. I'd concentrate on finishing Liz asap, so you can have the peninsular to yourself. Once she's gone you can move your forces over to the barb city to knock that over.
Single Malt
Prince
The barb city should be next target. Lizzie's city can wait, its not going anywhere, and there is no threat someone else will take it. The barb city is more likely to be captured by an AI.
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