EmperorFool
Deity
Were the frickin' lasers attached to sharks? You can cause real trouble doing that.
ALC Game #26: Willem van Oranje/Dutch
- Thread starter Lord Parkin
- Start date
wioneo
King
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2006
- Messages
- 752
Luckily it was just ill tempered sea bass weilding the lasers.
Kwibuss
Warlord
Yep, it's the BUG mod, as I linked to in the very first post of this thread.
Sorry all! There was an unanticipated major laser failure where I work, so the time that I thought I'd have to finish writing up the game was spent attempting to fix the problem with the laser. (Pain in the neck too, I was in the middle of a good data run.)
Anyway, it's too late now (even for me), so I'll *really* finish off the write-up tomorrow. Once again, my huge apologies for the delay. I promise it'll be worth it though - it's close to 100 turns in length, goes right through the exploration and expansion phase, and ends up with some very interesting choices to make for the next round!
No need to apologize Lord Parkin
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Alright, I'm finally done! I apologise if it's a little messy - I was a bit rushed, as I wanted to get it done before the next week started (as I'll be quite busy with work for the following week). Hopefully it should still be an enjoyable read though!
I'm just formatting it, so give me 20 minutes or so to get it all posted.
I'm just formatting it, so give me 20 minutes or so to get it all posted.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Exploration and Expansion: 800 BC to 580 AD (84 turns) - Part 1 of 3
First things first - as we'd decided, we attacked and razed the poorly placed barbarian city. We lost 2 Chariots in the process, even though all battles were at 60+% odds. Ah well, you have to get poor luck sometimes.
We founded The Hague, and noticed a barbarian Galley which spelled trouble.
Amsterdam switched to building a Galley immediately to destroy the threat, although it was almost certain that the barb would pillage our Clams there. (Luckily the Fish was safe, because it was on an ocean tile which the barbarian couldn't reach.)
Gandhi gets Alphabet in 750 BC, which is worrisome - one less civ that we could have traded Alphabet to. He has Meditation and Hunting on us, and we have Iron Working on him, but I decide not to trade such an expensive tech for his cheap ones. Bad move, as it turned out, since he traded with some other AI for Iron Working soon after, and we missed a window of opportunity. Oh well.
As expected, the barb pillages our Clams with nothing we can do about it.
The only slight upshot is that the AI seem to be having similar issues with the barb Galleys. (This map seems to be really bad for them - the large amount of water plus the Immortal difficulty level probably doesn't help.)
Our Galley is built, and gets Combat I (thanks to the Great General in the city). He goes and sits on the coast next to the barb Galley, to take the 10% defence bonus (attacking only has 50% odds, defending has something like 80+% odds). Luckily, we win, and don't have to invest in a second Galley to finish off the barb.
Next turn, we notice that Hammurabi has obtained Alphabet. This is starting to look quite bad - we've now lost two potential trading opportunities. Being Immortal level, the AI's are of course way ahead on tech at this point, so we don't have any other trade options.
We use our newly built Galley to ferry a couple of Chariots over to the island to the south, to check it out and reveal potential future city locations. One Chariot finds a hut where the villagers are hostile, but luckily they're all Warriors so they're easily dealt with. Free XP!
More bad news comes though - ANOTHER barb Galley has suddenly appeared, this time next to London. Our existing Galley is still healing way over to the east, so is no help. Nothing for it but to suck up the loss of the coastal improvements, and build another Galley to counter in London. (Really annoying too, we were only a couple of turns from Moai at this point, and had to waste time on the stupid barbs.)
We propose a Deer for Corn deal with Gandhi. Then we meet this guy.
The last AI, and the one that built Stonehenge... as well as the Pyramids, finished the turn before we met him. We notice that Alex is happy to war with Roosevelt, although we don't have anything to bribe him with yet. Something to keep in mind, though.
As a side note, a few turns back I sent some of our excess Chariots from the English war out to explore around the nearby lands. We located the Chinese capital, as well as uncovering more Greek and Babylonian lands.
Hammurabi founds Confucianism.
The barb Galley near London pillages both of the seafood resources. Extremely annoying, but we couldn't do much - I wasn't expecting to encounter so many barb ships so early in this game, so hadn't planned ahead for it. Anyway, we finally get a defending Galley built, and the barb ship destroyed itself (we had ~75% odds).
Gandhi builds the Colossus.
We found a barbarian city up to the north of the Chinese. (Our Chariot survived his battle, by the way.)
Barb Galleys seemed to be popping up everywhere at this point, so I started producing yet another Galley in Amsterdam. (Our third, just for the sake of defence against barbs!! The amount of barbarian naval activity on this map is insane.)
Gandhi builds the Temple of Artemis. Becoming quite the wonder hog, he is.
We finally get Alphabet, and check the trade screen. Unfortunately it isn't good - most AI's are unwilling to trade what they have.
We trade Hunting for Mysticism with Alexander at any rate - it's about the only trade we can really do at this point.
One of our Chariots exploring the island to our south finds a barb city in the ice - possibly a production centre for Galleys, although luckily it doesn't have much production to speak of.
Mao demands Alphabet.
We could accept and get a relations boost. However, I figure that we're probably likely to war with him first of all the AI's, and anyway I'm really reluctant to throw away our hard-earned Alphabet for nothing. That would leave only 2 civs we could trade it to!
We get an event which gives us either 164 beakers towards Metal Casting, or a chance of 328 beakers towards Metal Casting. You all know me, I'm a risk taker - so it was obvious what decision I'd make.
Luckily, the gamble paid off, and we ended up with 328 bonus beakers into Metal Casting. That was quite a bonus, and made Metal Casting very attractive to research simply for the trading value. Of course Gandhi already had it, but none of the other AI's did, and hopefully they wouldn't bother anytime soon with the Colossus already built.
We hook up our Clams again after defeating the barb Galley menaces, and renegotiate our Clams for Crabs deal with Hammurabi. Of course, it doesn't take long for yet another barb Galley to pop up, but this time we're prepared with two of our own Combat I Galleys.
Unfortunately we get a stroke of bad luck, and one of the Galleys dies in defence (only ~20% odds). Luckily the other Galley easily finishes off the barb though, before he can cause any further mischief.
The option to trade Maths becomes available with Roosevelt, but alas...
Ah, rats. That stinks. We really need a cheap tech to offer in addition to Alphabet to make him accept... but unfortunately there are none we can get that he doesn't already have. Never mind, screw him.
Gandhi cancels the Pigs deal with us because he gets himself Clams. We renegotiate Cows for Wheat.
We finish Meditation, and trade it to Mao for Archery. (Incidentally, I researched Meditation for two reasons. Firstly for the trade with Mao, and secondly because heading towards Monarchy soon was important, with many of our cities at their happy caps.)
Hammurabi founds Christianity.
We hear word that we are the second largest civilization in the world! Not bad.
We finish Priesthood, which is particularly useful for Temples in London. We decide to take a slight risk now, and head for Metal Casting, in the hopes of trading for Monarchy (which Hammurabi already has). This move will hopefully allow us to net several other techs simultaneously as well.
Mao demands that we stop trading with India, and I refuse. I've decided I won't bother with trying to keep this guy happy any more - so I'm in no rush to switch to Judaism either. Not that it'd be much help, since everyone seems to be picking up a different religion, so it's impossible to keep more than one person happy anyway. (This is confirmed a few turns later, as Alex converts to Christianity - yet another different faith.)
Gandhi builds the Mahabodi. This guy is starting to look like he may be our main tech rival in this game, and in danger of pulling away into a strong lead if we're not careful.
We get a Great Merchant. Usually this early in a game, I'd use him as a specialist. However, our tech rate is abysmal, and we really need to obtain a decent leveraging tech for trade purposes. So I bulb Currency - the first time I've ever done this with a Great Merchant!
It turns out to be the right move - immediately, our economy recovers significantly, and we suddenly have a valuable tech that no-one else has. We could trade Currency for Monarchy with Hammurabi, but I decide to wait for Metal Casting instead (because it's a tech Gandhi already has, so isn't quite as valuable.)
Another barb Galley turns up...
...and is eradicated before it can cause any trouble, since we now have adequate naval defences. (It's costing us in exploration though - we can't afford to send explorers around the world yet, because we need them all at home to fend off the constant stream of barb Galleys.)
America demands Alphabet. Since we're now in a better tech situation, and since we want to get at least one AI friendly, I accept. Roosevelt's a good choice for a friend anyway, because he's obviously far from us, a decent techer, and not much of a threat.
We get Metal Casting, and trade it to Hammurabi for Monarchy (for reasons stated previously).
We immediately switch to Hereditary Rule - a change especially appreciated by the citizens of London and Amsterdam.
At this point we decide to stir up a bit of trouble amongst the AI's. We notice that Roosevelt and Alex are both happy to war with one another, for the right price.
First things first - as we'd decided, we attacked and razed the poorly placed barbarian city. We lost 2 Chariots in the process, even though all battles were at 60+% odds. Ah well, you have to get poor luck sometimes.
We founded The Hague, and noticed a barbarian Galley which spelled trouble.
Amsterdam switched to building a Galley immediately to destroy the threat, although it was almost certain that the barb would pillage our Clams there. (Luckily the Fish was safe, because it was on an ocean tile which the barbarian couldn't reach.)
Gandhi gets Alphabet in 750 BC, which is worrisome - one less civ that we could have traded Alphabet to. He has Meditation and Hunting on us, and we have Iron Working on him, but I decide not to trade such an expensive tech for his cheap ones. Bad move, as it turned out, since he traded with some other AI for Iron Working soon after, and we missed a window of opportunity. Oh well.
As expected, the barb pillages our Clams with nothing we can do about it.
The only slight upshot is that the AI seem to be having similar issues with the barb Galleys. (This map seems to be really bad for them - the large amount of water plus the Immortal difficulty level probably doesn't help.)
Our Galley is built, and gets Combat I (thanks to the Great General in the city). He goes and sits on the coast next to the barb Galley, to take the 10% defence bonus (attacking only has 50% odds, defending has something like 80+% odds). Luckily, we win, and don't have to invest in a second Galley to finish off the barb.
Next turn, we notice that Hammurabi has obtained Alphabet. This is starting to look quite bad - we've now lost two potential trading opportunities. Being Immortal level, the AI's are of course way ahead on tech at this point, so we don't have any other trade options.
We use our newly built Galley to ferry a couple of Chariots over to the island to the south, to check it out and reveal potential future city locations. One Chariot finds a hut where the villagers are hostile, but luckily they're all Warriors so they're easily dealt with. Free XP!
More bad news comes though - ANOTHER barb Galley has suddenly appeared, this time next to London. Our existing Galley is still healing way over to the east, so is no help. Nothing for it but to suck up the loss of the coastal improvements, and build another Galley to counter in London. (Really annoying too, we were only a couple of turns from Moai at this point, and had to waste time on the stupid barbs.)
We propose a Deer for Corn deal with Gandhi. Then we meet this guy.
The last AI, and the one that built Stonehenge... as well as the Pyramids, finished the turn before we met him. We notice that Alex is happy to war with Roosevelt, although we don't have anything to bribe him with yet. Something to keep in mind, though.
As a side note, a few turns back I sent some of our excess Chariots from the English war out to explore around the nearby lands. We located the Chinese capital, as well as uncovering more Greek and Babylonian lands.
Hammurabi founds Confucianism.
The barb Galley near London pillages both of the seafood resources. Extremely annoying, but we couldn't do much - I wasn't expecting to encounter so many barb ships so early in this game, so hadn't planned ahead for it. Anyway, we finally get a defending Galley built, and the barb ship destroyed itself (we had ~75% odds).
Gandhi builds the Colossus.
We found a barbarian city up to the north of the Chinese. (Our Chariot survived his battle, by the way.)
Barb Galleys seemed to be popping up everywhere at this point, so I started producing yet another Galley in Amsterdam. (Our third, just for the sake of defence against barbs!! The amount of barbarian naval activity on this map is insane.)
Gandhi builds the Temple of Artemis. Becoming quite the wonder hog, he is.
We finally get Alphabet, and check the trade screen. Unfortunately it isn't good - most AI's are unwilling to trade what they have.
We trade Hunting for Mysticism with Alexander at any rate - it's about the only trade we can really do at this point.
One of our Chariots exploring the island to our south finds a barb city in the ice - possibly a production centre for Galleys, although luckily it doesn't have much production to speak of.
Mao demands Alphabet.
We could accept and get a relations boost. However, I figure that we're probably likely to war with him first of all the AI's, and anyway I'm really reluctant to throw away our hard-earned Alphabet for nothing. That would leave only 2 civs we could trade it to!
We get an event which gives us either 164 beakers towards Metal Casting, or a chance of 328 beakers towards Metal Casting. You all know me, I'm a risk taker - so it was obvious what decision I'd make.
Luckily, the gamble paid off, and we ended up with 328 bonus beakers into Metal Casting. That was quite a bonus, and made Metal Casting very attractive to research simply for the trading value. Of course Gandhi already had it, but none of the other AI's did, and hopefully they wouldn't bother anytime soon with the Colossus already built.
We hook up our Clams again after defeating the barb Galley menaces, and renegotiate our Clams for Crabs deal with Hammurabi. Of course, it doesn't take long for yet another barb Galley to pop up, but this time we're prepared with two of our own Combat I Galleys.
Unfortunately we get a stroke of bad luck, and one of the Galleys dies in defence (only ~20% odds). Luckily the other Galley easily finishes off the barb though, before he can cause any further mischief.
The option to trade Maths becomes available with Roosevelt, but alas...
Ah, rats. That stinks. We really need a cheap tech to offer in addition to Alphabet to make him accept... but unfortunately there are none we can get that he doesn't already have. Never mind, screw him.
Gandhi cancels the Pigs deal with us because he gets himself Clams. We renegotiate Cows for Wheat.
We finish Meditation, and trade it to Mao for Archery. (Incidentally, I researched Meditation for two reasons. Firstly for the trade with Mao, and secondly because heading towards Monarchy soon was important, with many of our cities at their happy caps.)
Hammurabi founds Christianity.
We hear word that we are the second largest civilization in the world! Not bad.
We finish Priesthood, which is particularly useful for Temples in London. We decide to take a slight risk now, and head for Metal Casting, in the hopes of trading for Monarchy (which Hammurabi already has). This move will hopefully allow us to net several other techs simultaneously as well.
Mao demands that we stop trading with India, and I refuse. I've decided I won't bother with trying to keep this guy happy any more - so I'm in no rush to switch to Judaism either. Not that it'd be much help, since everyone seems to be picking up a different religion, so it's impossible to keep more than one person happy anyway. (This is confirmed a few turns later, as Alex converts to Christianity - yet another different faith.)
Gandhi builds the Mahabodi. This guy is starting to look like he may be our main tech rival in this game, and in danger of pulling away into a strong lead if we're not careful.
We get a Great Merchant. Usually this early in a game, I'd use him as a specialist. However, our tech rate is abysmal, and we really need to obtain a decent leveraging tech for trade purposes. So I bulb Currency - the first time I've ever done this with a Great Merchant!
It turns out to be the right move - immediately, our economy recovers significantly, and we suddenly have a valuable tech that no-one else has. We could trade Currency for Monarchy with Hammurabi, but I decide to wait for Metal Casting instead (because it's a tech Gandhi already has, so isn't quite as valuable.)
Another barb Galley turns up...
...and is eradicated before it can cause any trouble, since we now have adequate naval defences. (It's costing us in exploration though - we can't afford to send explorers around the world yet, because we need them all at home to fend off the constant stream of barb Galleys.)
America demands Alphabet. Since we're now in a better tech situation, and since we want to get at least one AI friendly, I accept. Roosevelt's a good choice for a friend anyway, because he's obviously far from us, a decent techer, and not much of a threat.
We get Metal Casting, and trade it to Hammurabi for Monarchy (for reasons stated previously).
We immediately switch to Hereditary Rule - a change especially appreciated by the citizens of London and Amsterdam.
At this point we decide to stir up a bit of trouble amongst the AI's. We notice that Roosevelt and Alex are both happy to war with one another, for the right price.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Exploration and Expansion: 800 BC to 580 AD (84 turns) - Part 2 of 3
We decide to make Roosevelt war with Alex, mainly because we'd rather keep Roosevelt as a good friend. Alex isn't too happy with us, of course, but that's too bad. It's better to keep the AI's occupied with one another than with us.
Very nicely, Alex drags Mao into the war the very next turn, so both of our nearby neighbours are now occupied elsewhere!
We sell off Priesthood to Alex and Mao for 90 and 70 gold respectively, to speed up our tech rate a little. We manage to secure a deal of Sugar for Fish with Alexander, which allows London in particular to grow larger.
Since we now have 4 trade routes in all coastal cities, it's high time to start expanding! Our cities start churning out settlers, and our first new cities are founded:
(Sorry, I seem not to have a founding picture for Rotterdam.)
We finish Maths, and Alex is immediately willing to trade Calendar. Very nice of him! Metal Casting and a little gold gets the tech into our hands.
Calendar allows us to start hooking up our Dyes, Incense, and Silks, so it's very helpful. Our Workers get started on the improvements right away.
I finally get around to exploring the islands to the west, by dropping Chariots off. One finds a hut, which gives us a nice gold boost.
Hammurabi completes the Apostolic Palace. Looks like that wonder won't be much of an issue in this game, since every single civ is following a different faith.
Alex demands Currency, and we decide to accept. We really don't want to get too much on the bad side of this guy right now, after all.
Turns out that we made the right decision - the very same turn, Alex declared war on Hammurabi! (Yes, while still at war with Roosevelt!) Obviously he was itching for another fight, so it may have been a good thing we didn't refuse his demand.
We notice that Mao seems to be stockpiling rather a large number of units in a city next to us.
With Alex having just declared war on a second nation, I'm a little worried about whether Mao will decide to war with someone else too, so I decide to beef up defences in Angle somewhat. Four Axemen are built and sent to the city over the next few turns, as well as a number of Chariots.
Roosevelt builds the Hanging Gardens. No surprise, he had Maths first.
Our overseas expansion continues...
The first city changes hands between the AI - Hammurabi captures a city of Alex's! This is great news - always good to see the notorious warmonger Alex getting a whipping from someone else.
Alex founds Taoism.
Gandhi demands Calendar, and we refuse. This guy is already far enough in the tech lead, so we don't want to fuel him any more. Besides, we'd rather someone - anyone - else got the Mausoleum wonder instead of him. No sense boosting the leader further into the lead.
Alex and Mao both demand that we war with America, which we refuse. This hurts us a bit diplomatically, but at this stage of the game it shouldn't matter too much. Especially since Alex and Mao are both starting to fall behind in tech - they just can't keep up with the pace set by India and ourselves at this point.
We finally get Civil Service, after a beeline through Code of Laws. (One of my favourite beelines in the game - Bureaucracy is just so powerful!) We immediately switch civics, getting the nice +50% commerce and +50% hammers in Amsterdam. Machinery is next on the priority list, so that we can get Macemen to ward off any unwanted invaders, and start thinking about Caravels for circumnavigation.
Gandhi builds both the Great Library and the Statue of Zeus in one turn, showing off his wonder-hogging colours. (Usually I'd make a bid for the Great Library myself, but with Gandhi getting Literature so early, and with us missing marble, I figured it wasn't worth it.) Gandhi also researches Music and takes the Great Artist, using him to start a Golden Age - a very dubious move this early in the game.
Another island city is founded...
Great Lighthouse + Currency = Awesome, by the way. Have I mentioned that already? New coastal cities barely make a dent in our treasury.
We finally get a Galley over to India, and send a Chariot around to explore.
We make a couple of skewed trades with the AI to obtain some old, but necessary, techs. At least it nets us a bit of gold, and helps out with diplomatic + points.
We immediately switch to Organized Religion upon recieving Monotheism - something we probably should have done a while ago. The following turn, we manage to resell Polytheism/Monotheism to Alex/Mao for close to 300 gold altogether - not bad at all.
Meanwhile, Hammurabi captures Alex's city of Thebes, then makes peace with Alex. A shame to see the war end, but never mind. Nice to see that Alex got a taste of his own medicine for once.
Sometime around here, I decide to start constructing the Mausoleum of Mausolus. It's a very nice wonder, and I really don't want Gandhi to get it. Unfortunately it's a spur-of-the-moment decision, so I haven't planned ahead - there's an island to the southwest with Marble, but I won't settle it in time to get the bonus. Never mind though, we'll still make a shot.
We research Paper, and buy Roosevelt's world map for Monotheism (and a bit of gold from him). I deliberately bought instead of trading because I really want us to get circumnavigation!
Roosevelt makes peace with Alex. However, only a turn later, Alex is willing to be bought into war again! It seems he hasn't learnt from his past mistakes. Still, who are we to decline such a great opportunity for causing further unrest between the AI nations!
It's brilliant that the AI are so willing to be distracted by each other in this game. Saves a lot of work for us.
All the meantime we continue to sell off techs to the more backward AI (Mao/Alex) in return for gold to keep us researching at full capacity. Monotheism and Compass are sold for a few hundred gold.
We finish Optics, and immediately begin on a Caravel in London. Gandhi will have Caravels of his own very soon (if not already), and we don't want him to get circumnavigation!
Gandhi builds the Parthenon. As if he didn't have enough wonders already. Ah well, they'll be ours in due course...
More new island cities are founded. Yet again, we have troubles with barb Galleys. We get unlucky with an ~80% battle, and a roaming barb Galley gets within dangerous range of our valuable fishing lands.
Amsterdam immediately switches to a Trireme to counter the barb Galley (2 turns as opposed to 3 turns for a Caravel). This delays the Mausoleum of Mausolus, but it's more urgent to protect our poor fishermen from the marauding Galley.
Gandhi enters WHEOOHRN mode - ie starts preparing for war. (Incidentally, a great feature in BUG that this is displayed automatically on the scoreboard... thumbs up, guys.) Hmm, I wonder if it's with us. He was pleased with us, so I don't think he'll declare on us... right? Still, I start preparing just in case. Caravels seem to be the best bet, since that way we can destroy any invasion force before it even reaches our lands. Of course, East Indiamen would be even better!
Mao captures a city of Alex's, and we cheer him on. Great to see Alex being so completely demolished by the other AI's - seems like just payback for his overly trigger-happy finger.
Our Trireme finally takes care of that pesky barb Galley...
We finally found that marble city. I guess I could have founded it on the marble to get access straight away, and perhaps I should have. I wanted the extra hammers from improving the tile later though, so founded on the tundra.
Roosevelt builds Chichen Itza.
We discover a source of tin at Amsterdam, boosting production.
Mao captures a barb city, but manages to lose one of his cities to Alex in the same turn. Net loss for him, but good for us - the more the AI keep fighting back and forth, the better.
We get circumnavigation as planned! Phew... I was worried Gandhi would beat us there for a while - we could even see his Caravels in the water - but luckily we just beat him out. Since we now have the +1 movement, we sell our world map around to all the civs - netting a healthy 430 gold!
Roosevelt becomes willing to trade Construction, so we quickly make a deal before he changes his mind.
Alex and Mao finally make peace. This means that now the entire world is at peace again, for the first time since my initial interference with the Roosevelt-Alex war. Unfortunately I can't bribe anyone else into war again for the moment - I'll have to check on Mao and Alex again in 10 turns. We definitely don't want either of them going WHEOOHRN with us.
Next turn...
We get the Mausoleum of Mausolus - yay! I'm kind of surprised no one else beat us out to it... in my experience it's usually a wonder the AI shoots for. Still, I'm not complaining - it's a nice boost. We also got our second Great Person - another Great Merchant, despite the odds against it (I was hoping for a Scientist or maybe an Engineer).
Some evil person poisoned Angle...
I forgot to check the espionage numbers at the time, but I suspect it was Alex who did it.
We decide to make Roosevelt war with Alex, mainly because we'd rather keep Roosevelt as a good friend. Alex isn't too happy with us, of course, but that's too bad. It's better to keep the AI's occupied with one another than with us.
Very nicely, Alex drags Mao into the war the very next turn, so both of our nearby neighbours are now occupied elsewhere!
We sell off Priesthood to Alex and Mao for 90 and 70 gold respectively, to speed up our tech rate a little. We manage to secure a deal of Sugar for Fish with Alexander, which allows London in particular to grow larger.
Since we now have 4 trade routes in all coastal cities, it's high time to start expanding! Our cities start churning out settlers, and our first new cities are founded:
(Sorry, I seem not to have a founding picture for Rotterdam.)
We finish Maths, and Alex is immediately willing to trade Calendar. Very nice of him! Metal Casting and a little gold gets the tech into our hands.
Calendar allows us to start hooking up our Dyes, Incense, and Silks, so it's very helpful. Our Workers get started on the improvements right away.
I finally get around to exploring the islands to the west, by dropping Chariots off. One finds a hut, which gives us a nice gold boost.
Hammurabi completes the Apostolic Palace. Looks like that wonder won't be much of an issue in this game, since every single civ is following a different faith.
Alex demands Currency, and we decide to accept. We really don't want to get too much on the bad side of this guy right now, after all.
Turns out that we made the right decision - the very same turn, Alex declared war on Hammurabi! (Yes, while still at war with Roosevelt!) Obviously he was itching for another fight, so it may have been a good thing we didn't refuse his demand.
We notice that Mao seems to be stockpiling rather a large number of units in a city next to us.
With Alex having just declared war on a second nation, I'm a little worried about whether Mao will decide to war with someone else too, so I decide to beef up defences in Angle somewhat. Four Axemen are built and sent to the city over the next few turns, as well as a number of Chariots.
Roosevelt builds the Hanging Gardens. No surprise, he had Maths first.
Our overseas expansion continues...
The first city changes hands between the AI - Hammurabi captures a city of Alex's! This is great news - always good to see the notorious warmonger Alex getting a whipping from someone else.
Alex founds Taoism.
Gandhi demands Calendar, and we refuse. This guy is already far enough in the tech lead, so we don't want to fuel him any more. Besides, we'd rather someone - anyone - else got the Mausoleum wonder instead of him. No sense boosting the leader further into the lead.
Alex and Mao both demand that we war with America, which we refuse. This hurts us a bit diplomatically, but at this stage of the game it shouldn't matter too much. Especially since Alex and Mao are both starting to fall behind in tech - they just can't keep up with the pace set by India and ourselves at this point.
We finally get Civil Service, after a beeline through Code of Laws. (One of my favourite beelines in the game - Bureaucracy is just so powerful!) We immediately switch civics, getting the nice +50% commerce and +50% hammers in Amsterdam. Machinery is next on the priority list, so that we can get Macemen to ward off any unwanted invaders, and start thinking about Caravels for circumnavigation.
Gandhi builds both the Great Library and the Statue of Zeus in one turn, showing off his wonder-hogging colours. (Usually I'd make a bid for the Great Library myself, but with Gandhi getting Literature so early, and with us missing marble, I figured it wasn't worth it.) Gandhi also researches Music and takes the Great Artist, using him to start a Golden Age - a very dubious move this early in the game.
Another island city is founded...
Great Lighthouse + Currency = Awesome, by the way. Have I mentioned that already? New coastal cities barely make a dent in our treasury.
We finally get a Galley over to India, and send a Chariot around to explore.
We make a couple of skewed trades with the AI to obtain some old, but necessary, techs. At least it nets us a bit of gold, and helps out with diplomatic + points.
We immediately switch to Organized Religion upon recieving Monotheism - something we probably should have done a while ago. The following turn, we manage to resell Polytheism/Monotheism to Alex/Mao for close to 300 gold altogether - not bad at all.
Meanwhile, Hammurabi captures Alex's city of Thebes, then makes peace with Alex. A shame to see the war end, but never mind. Nice to see that Alex got a taste of his own medicine for once.
Sometime around here, I decide to start constructing the Mausoleum of Mausolus. It's a very nice wonder, and I really don't want Gandhi to get it. Unfortunately it's a spur-of-the-moment decision, so I haven't planned ahead - there's an island to the southwest with Marble, but I won't settle it in time to get the bonus. Never mind though, we'll still make a shot.
We research Paper, and buy Roosevelt's world map for Monotheism (and a bit of gold from him). I deliberately bought instead of trading because I really want us to get circumnavigation!
Roosevelt makes peace with Alex. However, only a turn later, Alex is willing to be bought into war again! It seems he hasn't learnt from his past mistakes. Still, who are we to decline such a great opportunity for causing further unrest between the AI nations!
It's brilliant that the AI are so willing to be distracted by each other in this game. Saves a lot of work for us.
All the meantime we continue to sell off techs to the more backward AI (Mao/Alex) in return for gold to keep us researching at full capacity. Monotheism and Compass are sold for a few hundred gold.
We finish Optics, and immediately begin on a Caravel in London. Gandhi will have Caravels of his own very soon (if not already), and we don't want him to get circumnavigation!
Gandhi builds the Parthenon. As if he didn't have enough wonders already. Ah well, they'll be ours in due course...
More new island cities are founded. Yet again, we have troubles with barb Galleys. We get unlucky with an ~80% battle, and a roaming barb Galley gets within dangerous range of our valuable fishing lands.
Amsterdam immediately switches to a Trireme to counter the barb Galley (2 turns as opposed to 3 turns for a Caravel). This delays the Mausoleum of Mausolus, but it's more urgent to protect our poor fishermen from the marauding Galley.
Gandhi enters WHEOOHRN mode - ie starts preparing for war. (Incidentally, a great feature in BUG that this is displayed automatically on the scoreboard... thumbs up, guys.) Hmm, I wonder if it's with us. He was pleased with us, so I don't think he'll declare on us... right? Still, I start preparing just in case. Caravels seem to be the best bet, since that way we can destroy any invasion force before it even reaches our lands. Of course, East Indiamen would be even better!
Mao captures a city of Alex's, and we cheer him on. Great to see Alex being so completely demolished by the other AI's - seems like just payback for his overly trigger-happy finger.
Our Trireme finally takes care of that pesky barb Galley...
We finally found that marble city. I guess I could have founded it on the marble to get access straight away, and perhaps I should have. I wanted the extra hammers from improving the tile later though, so founded on the tundra.
Roosevelt builds Chichen Itza.
We discover a source of tin at Amsterdam, boosting production.
Mao captures a barb city, but manages to lose one of his cities to Alex in the same turn. Net loss for him, but good for us - the more the AI keep fighting back and forth, the better.
We get circumnavigation as planned! Phew... I was worried Gandhi would beat us there for a while - we could even see his Caravels in the water - but luckily we just beat him out. Since we now have the +1 movement, we sell our world map around to all the civs - netting a healthy 430 gold!
Roosevelt becomes willing to trade Construction, so we quickly make a deal before he changes his mind.
Alex and Mao finally make peace. This means that now the entire world is at peace again, for the first time since my initial interference with the Roosevelt-Alex war. Unfortunately I can't bribe anyone else into war again for the moment - I'll have to check on Mao and Alex again in 10 turns. We definitely don't want either of them going WHEOOHRN with us.
Next turn...
We get the Mausoleum of Mausolus - yay! I'm kind of surprised no one else beat us out to it... in my experience it's usually a wonder the AI shoots for. Still, I'm not complaining - it's a nice boost. We also got our second Great Person - another Great Merchant, despite the odds against it (I was hoping for a Scientist or maybe an Engineer).
Some evil person poisoned Angle...
I forgot to check the espionage numbers at the time, but I suspect it was Alex who did it.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Exploration and Expansion: 800 BC to 580 AD (84 turns) - Part 3 of 3
Anyway, at this point I figured I'd played enough, and so I stopped. Here's the overview of the tech situation:
Overview of resource deals:
Diplomatic standings. Everyone's fairly neutral towards us, except Gandhi who seems to like us. Look at how much Alex and Hammy hate each other though!
Overview of most of the world:
Top cities (we have two, yay)!
Inside views of our two top cities:
Demographics (note our GNP isn't quite that high, it's just because we're at 100% research at the moment).
The graphs:
Finally, there's a city we need to decide where to found:
So basically, in this round we expanded like crazy, played several of the AI civs off against each other, and managed to build up a very respectable tech rate. Our only serious competition is now Gandhi. (By the way, obviously we need more Workers for our island cities, and I'll get onto that soon.)
Points for discussion:
Anyway, at this point I figured I'd played enough, and so I stopped. Here's the overview of the tech situation:
Overview of resource deals:
Diplomatic standings. Everyone's fairly neutral towards us, except Gandhi who seems to like us. Look at how much Alex and Hammy hate each other though!
Overview of most of the world:
Top cities (we have two, yay)!
Inside views of our two top cities:
Demographics (note our GNP isn't quite that high, it's just because we're at 100% research at the moment).
The graphs:
Finally, there's a city we need to decide where to found:
So basically, in this round we expanded like crazy, played several of the AI civs off against each other, and managed to build up a very respectable tech rate. Our only serious competition is now Gandhi.
(By the way, obviously we need more Workers for our island cities, and I'll get onto that soon.)Points for discussion:
- Gandhi's WHEOOHRN? He was at pleased with us when he went into it, and is still pleased with us. Is it possible for him to declare war on us, or is he planning to war with someone else?
- Military situation? Obviously related to the above question. We clearly need to defend the east more, now that Mao and Alex aren't warring (although neither are WHEOOHRN). Do we also need to defend the west against Gandhi?
- City location? Fairly minor, but we should decide where to place the city in the screenshot above. Thoughts?
- Tech path? I started Education because I was worried about Gandhi stealing Liberalism from us (he's teching almost as fast as us). Obviously we want Astronomy soon though, so that we can showcase our UU! How about we research Liberalism and pick Astronomy as our free tech?
- Tech trades? Should we trade with Gandhi? I'm leaning towards no if he's potentially about to war with us, yes if he isn't. However, either way we definitely shouldn't give him Paper (pushes him closer to Liberalism).
- Great Merchant? We've got him, now what do we do with him? Using him for bulbing gives +1839 for Printing Press - about half that tech's value. Alternatively, we could save him for a Golden Age (which would be especially nice with the MoM wonder we now have). Or I guess we could use him as a specialist (not my favourite option). Thoughts?
r_rolo1
King of myself
Welcome to the post-3.17 archipelago games with lots of fun with barbarian galleys popping like weeds in spring
Some notes:
-That stack of Mao is a revolt supressor. I would not expect that Mao has ideas just because of that. And IIRC Gandhi does not go to hands full @ Pleased and to be honest, I think he is aiming to Alex, his worst enemy at this moment ( just check glance )
-I was going to suggest closing borders with Gandhi ( to cut his trade routes ), but you recieve 44 g of trade routes with him.... tough call. Anyway , I'm not exactly a apologist of giving strenght to the more powerful civ
-The GM... to say the truth, in this map, I would save it for sushi. You are in complete control of the game and it will only get worse as soon as you get your UB running ( and you could win this easily without more war, and just setting those seafood rich islands that are still avaliable ), so I don't think that it is pressing to use it in a more immediate way. And the other options are not as good anyaway......
-About techs, definitely lib Astro. I would do that and go to the Chemistry line. This is a water map after all
-Avoid settling more than 2 ( 3 to top ) cities in a landmass that doesn't have palace, FP or Versailles. That island where you settled 4 cities is costing you 43.12 g on maintenance, of which 15.95 are from colonial maintenance ( roughly 36%
).
-About trading with gandhi... only after lib is secure enough
Some notes:
-That stack of Mao is a revolt supressor. I would not expect that Mao has ideas just because of that. And IIRC Gandhi does not go to hands full @ Pleased and to be honest, I think he is aiming to Alex, his worst enemy at this moment ( just check glance )
-I was going to suggest closing borders with Gandhi ( to cut his trade routes ), but you recieve 44 g of trade routes with him.... tough call. Anyway , I'm not exactly a apologist of giving strenght to the more powerful civ
-The GM... to say the truth, in this map, I would save it for sushi. You are in complete control of the game and it will only get worse as soon as you get your UB running ( and you could win this easily without more war, and just setting those seafood rich islands that are still avaliable ), so I don't think that it is pressing to use it in a more immediate way. And the other options are not as good anyaway......
-About techs, definitely lib Astro. I would do that and go to the Chemistry line. This is a water map after all
-Avoid settling more than 2 ( 3 to top ) cities in a landmass that doesn't have palace, FP or Versailles. That island where you settled 4 cities is costing you 43.12 g on maintenance, of which 15.95 are from colonial maintenance ( roughly 36%
).-About trading with gandhi... only after lib is secure enough
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
I never research Alphabet on my own on Immortal. The AI always gets to it before I do. I research Aesthetics instead, research Alphabet for a few turns to bring the price down, then do a swap. I'll then trade Aesthetics like crazy to catch up on techs--the AI rarely prioritizes it, so it's wonderful tech trade bait. Aesthetics is on the way to Literature and the Great Library, too. Oh well, hindsight's 20-20 and all that.
Speaking of which, you may want to swallow your pride and swap something to Gandhi for Aesthetics and that pile of gold he's sitting on. Then get Literature. Once you have that marble on-line, you need to build the National and Heroic Epics somewhere to get a GP Farm and a unit pump going.
Using the GM to lightbulb Currency was definitely your best choice--an excellent way in which to take advantage of the Great Lighthouse (through both the generation of the GM and through increasing your trade route income thanks to Currency). However, you're not taking full advantage of obtaining Currency this way. I'm surprised you aren't doing some GPT resource trades. You can net 13 GPT by trading clams to Roosevelt and silk to Gandhi. Unfortunately it looks like you'll have nothing extra left over to trade to Hammy for the 5 GPT he has available.
I don't know if I would have bothered expanding onto those little islands. I usually let the AI do that. Even with all the trade routes you have, they add to your upkeep costs and they can be a pain to supply with defenders since you have to ship them over. Instead, I would have started building an army to take out Mao. He's right next door, he's crowding you, he has to die.
I'm also not sure of the wisdom of trading away such juicy techs like Machinery just to get the AIs to fight one another. I suppose it keeps them off your back, but it may come back to haunt you, what with the diplo demerits you'll earn, the tech boosts you're giving your rivals, the veteran armies they'll have, and possible tech trades you may be forgoing because you've already given away the tech.
Nevertheless, you're #2 overall in terms of score and techs, so I shouldn't quibble too much. Well done, and I look forward to the next round!
Speaking of which, you may want to swallow your pride and swap something to Gandhi for Aesthetics and that pile of gold he's sitting on. Then get Literature. Once you have that marble on-line, you need to build the National and Heroic Epics somewhere to get a GP Farm and a unit pump going.
Using the GM to lightbulb Currency was definitely your best choice--an excellent way in which to take advantage of the Great Lighthouse (through both the generation of the GM and through increasing your trade route income thanks to Currency). However, you're not taking full advantage of obtaining Currency this way. I'm surprised you aren't doing some GPT resource trades. You can net 13 GPT by trading clams to Roosevelt and silk to Gandhi. Unfortunately it looks like you'll have nothing extra left over to trade to Hammy for the 5 GPT he has available.
I don't know if I would have bothered expanding onto those little islands. I usually let the AI do that. Even with all the trade routes you have, they add to your upkeep costs and they can be a pain to supply with defenders since you have to ship them over. Instead, I would have started building an army to take out Mao. He's right next door, he's crowding you, he has to die.
I'm also not sure of the wisdom of trading away such juicy techs like Machinery just to get the AIs to fight one another. I suppose it keeps them off your back, but it may come back to haunt you, what with the diplo demerits you'll earn, the tech boosts you're giving your rivals, the veteran armies they'll have, and possible tech trades you may be forgoing because you've already given away the tech.
Nevertheless, you're #2 overall in terms of score and techs, so I shouldn't quibble too much. Well done, and I look forward to the next round!
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Actually it's still 3.17. I'm dual installed, and play this game on the old version.Welcome to the post-3.17 archipelago games with lots of fun with barbarian galleys popping like weeds in spring
I usually use the Economics Merchant for Sushi. Still, we may not be guaranteed him yet.
Ouch, yeah. Forgot about that. I'm used to playing without Vassal States on, so colonial maintenance doesn't exist.-Avoid settling more than 2 ( 3 to top ) cities in a landmass that doesn't have palace, FP or Versailles. That island where you settled 4 cities is costing you 43.12 g on maintenance, of which 15.95 are from colonial maintenance ( roughly 36%
Yeah, I considered Aesthetics, but I was hoping I might luck in with Alphabet. Alas, it wasn't the case.
Although Aesthetics wouldn't have got me Alphabet I think, so I still would have had to research that.
Indeed. Sounds like a plan.
Damn, I forgot about that. I usually do it, it just slipped my mind in this round. Put it down to playing too fast or something.
I'll set them up first thing next round.Still, those island cities are going to become VERY powerful at Steam Power. And I wanted to get them built up a bit beforehand, so they'd be ready to take Dikes and go into full production mode. Seemed the best way to exploit the Dutch UB, and it is the ALC after all.
As for war with Mao, it sounds like it could be a good plan indeed. Especially with Macemen/Crossbows vs Swordsmen/Axemen.
Yeah, maybe. I don't think I'm forgoing any tech trades, because these are already the AI at the bottom of the stack. And the major benefit of getting the AI's to fight one another early on is that, if you're lucky, they'll get more and more negative multipliers with one another, and continue fighting for the rest of the game. That was my line of thought/hope with starting all the AI-AI wars.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Hammy and gandhi already have literature ( it doesn't appear on their "Can research", in spite of them having Aesthetics ... btw thay should have Drama too ). I would not bet in winning the Great Library race ( in spite of none looking to have marble ). And with only 2 AI lacking aeshetics and only parthenon lacking of the aesthetics wonders, I wonder if you will be able to broke a lot from it
Especially since Gandhi already built it
You could easily turtle up and win this from here, but that sounds kinda dull. Build up some stacks and go kill Mao and Alex. I don't think you need to specifically reinforce the west, except maybe a 'speed bump' force ... building up your power to take out the east ought to keep Gandhi off your back, especially if he dislikes other people more than you.
Matthew5117
Emperor
JujuLautre
Deity
7 clams, 4 fishs, 2 rice, 1 crab plus potential new cities to up all that? Sushiiiiiiiiiiiii 
Vox Mentis
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2005
- Messages
- 22
HBR to Gandhi for gold? I think the AI undervalues gold compared to techs, plus there's no WFYABTA.
dirtyparrot
Upholding Brannigan's Law
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 1,841
Gandhi won't DOW you if he was pleased with you beforehand (which he was). I'm guessing that either Mao or Alex is Gandhi's target. You probably have a good chance to dogpile the target (or backstab Gandhi). It's just nice to see Gandhi wanting to start a war for once.
popejubal
Emperor
If you do attach him as a specialist, please make sure he first takes a trip to the future shrine site. I'm sure you will do so if he gets settled, I just can't help but say that out loud. Also, have you given any thoughts to pushing out a Great Priest for that shrine? It's going to get harder and harder to do as the game goes on.
You could also send him on a trip to the Ghandi city that has the Temple of Artemis. I recall that Great Merchant cash bomb are based on the value of trade routes (or at least the potential value of trade routes since Mercantilism doesn't seem to kill the Great Merchant cash bomb) that are in the city. I'm not sure of the mechanics, but I'll take a look later tonight at what kind of cash the Great Merchant could bring.
Edit: 1950 gold from Dehli, 2250 from Temple of Artemis city. If only baldy had put the TofA in Dehli!
I think that you're a shoe in for getting the free Great Merchant from techs if you want it, so you can afford to burn this Merchant for Cash if you choose to do so. Grabbing cash from the Merchant also guarantees you Liberalism as far as I can see since you'll be able to run 100% research for a whole lot longer than any of your competitors.
Hi
Those smiley faces are from bug mod that show how an AI feels toward you so you dont always have to check on the diplo screen. Green smiley=pleased, yellow smiley=friendly, gray sad face=cautious, dark sad face=annoyed and red sad face=furious.
Kaytie
Those smiley faces are from bug mod that show how an AI feels toward you so you dont always have to check on the diplo screen. Green smiley=pleased, yellow smiley=friendly, gray sad face=cautious, dark sad face=annoyed and red sad face=furious.
Kaytie
dirtyparrot
Upholding Brannigan's Law
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 1,841
It means that you can't declare war on that AI for a certain number of turns because one of you made a demand that the other accepted.
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