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Alexander's Conquests Warning

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Macintosh' started by mythusmage, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. mythusmage

    mythusmage Chieftain

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    The scenario is not compatible with the Macintosh version of Civ 3. I just tried installing it on a G5 machine, and got a persistent error message.

    That is, even after moving a copy of the Otomo Spearman folder from the Play the World Game Data folder to the AC folder I got the same error message as before.

    This means there's a mistake in the BIQ itself, and scenario author Keroro appears to be reluctant to fix that error.

    I realize there is a 'fix', but that requires messing with the core files. I refuse to mess with the core files for any app on my machine. I will not add an extra folder when that folder is not strictly necessary. It's not necessary in this case because Keroro could easily edit the BIQ to correct any error.

    One day, it is to be hoped, there will be a Civ3 editor for the Mac (a private initiative) from another party. When that happens I'm going to edit the AC BIQ and make it available to Mac users. Until that day, don't bother with Alexander's Conquests unless you have access to a Windows machine.
     
  2. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    What mistakes do you believe exist in the BIQs of mods that fail to respond to your attempted fixes?

    There are a whole lot of places where the paths to files can fail:

    1. The BIQ contains a search paths parameter. That has to point to the correct mod folder name relative to the BIQ file itself. If it references content from more than one custom mod then it should include the other mod folder paths as well. If that parameter were wrong, it would probably also fail on Windows.

    2. The BIQ contains some civilopedia file names. These have to be spelt correctly. Again, I suspect they would fail on Windows if they were not.

    3. The mod folders contain files that include file path information. Each Art/Units/ folder should include a .ini file that tells the software what sound and image and animation files to use to render that unit. Also, there are some sound files that define sequences of sounds, and each element of the sound is defined in a different .wav file that has to be found by the software.

    If I am correct, then it is rather unlikely that editing the BIQ will bring you any better results. And, trust me, I have tried!

    I think that most of the problems we see are related to the file paths defined in the third and last category. It becomes necessary to second guess how to move/copy the "missing" files - or their parent folders - in order to put them in the search paths that the software is prepared to look in.

    I am more than happy to be proved wrong. If you know what needs to be changed in the Alexander's Qonquests BIQ, then please let me know. I have the Windows editor - along with all the Windows Civ3 software - and I can provide a changed BIQ you your specifications so that you can test it. There is no need to wait for the Mac editor.
     
  3. mythusmage

    mythusmage Chieftain

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    I believe number 1 applies, see attachment for details. Note that the biq is looking for a folder that doesn't exist on the Mac, only on Windows.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I hate mods! Two separate compulsory files to wait five minutes each for, then a pathetic download rate that means you wait an hour for the files. And, no, I refuse to sign up to AtomicGamer, as it sounds like a free invitation for spammers

    Anyway, I'm downloading AC to investigate.

    The BIQ doesn't reference the Medieval Japan mod. In fact, it doesn't even include the Otomo Spearman as a unit, so changing the search paths for the AC mod is very unlikely to fix the problem. In which case we are back to my third category.
     
  5. mythusmage

    mythusmage Chieftain

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    Anyway you look at it, the AC BIQ could use some judicious editing.
     
  6. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    It wouldn't help! Please just tell me what you think you would do to it?

    PS

    FWIW, a workround may be to revert whatever unit has been assigned the OtomoSpear sound effect to its normal sound effect, by editing the .ini file. But until these stoopid downloads complete, I can't try anything!
     
  7. mythusmage

    mythusmage Chieftain

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    How do you know, until you've tried editing the biq? The scenario is asking for an item that does not exist in the Mac version of the game, one would think that eliminating the request would make a big difference.
     
  8. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    OK, here's the problem:

    The following lines appear in /Applications/Civ III Complete/Conquests Game Data/Scenarios/AC v 1 50.1/Art/Units/Indian Garrison/Indian Garrison.ini
    Each of the .amb files and the .wav file are hard coded paths: ..\..\..\CIV3PTW\extras\Medieval Japan. These paths appear to be specified relative to the location of the BIQ. In order to find these files, the Mac software would have to replace 'CIV3PTW\' by '..\..\..\Play the World Game Data/', as it appears to treat such paths as relative to the .ini file. It is clearly not set up to do this.

    I can assure you that this problem could not be fixed solely by editing the search path parameter in the .BIQ file, as whatever you do, Civ3 is going to try to find a folder called CIV3PTW which doesn't exist.

    There are two ways to tackle this problem. One is to edit the paths in the .ini file to add the extra '..\' components to each one. The other is to create a symbolic link to the Play the World Game Data/ folder, call it 'CIV3PTW', and put it at the place in the file hierarchy that it needs to be. In this case, it would have to go in the AC 1.50 folder. Note that I have tried using a MacOS alias, and it doesn't work. You have to use a UNIX-style symlink.

    I have tried both ways of skinning the cat, and was able to start the game either way.

    I think the second option is more elegant, requires no file changes from the original mod, and should work for other mods that reference PTW resources. I used PathFinder to create a symlink, which is my normal Finder replacement and has this capability built-in. If you don't have PathFinder, there are several utilities out there that provide this service, or you can use the following terminal commands:

    cd "/Applications/Civ III Complete/Conquests Game Data/Scenarios/AC v 1 50/"
    ln -s "/Applications/Civ III Complete/Play the World Game Data/" CIV3PTW [That first character is a lower case 'L']

    You may need to modify the folder paths if they do not match the names on your system. The quotes are important because the file paths contain spaces.

    You can avoid typing the paths in if you do the following:
    (the spaces will also be dealt with automatically by terminal inserting '\' escape characters in the created paths)

    1. Type cd followed by a space.
    2. Drag and drop the AC v 1 50 folder from Finder onto the terminal window. Hit return.
    3. Type ln -s followed by a space. [That first character is a lower case 'L']
    4. Drag and drop the Play the World Game Data folder from Finder onto the terminal window.
    5. Type a space and then CIV3PTW. Hit return

    Let me know how you get on.
     
  9. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    PS ... having seen your latest post:

    You can't eliminate the request for CIV3PTW/ by editing the BIQ, because that isn't where that item is specified.

    The referenced unit does exist in the Mac version. Look in Play the World Game Data/Extras/Medieval Japan/Art/Units/Otomo Spearman/.

    You could do a workround by using a BIQ editor to eliminate the Indian Garrison, I guess, but that's just an admission of defeat. I've offered you a full solution, and it makes no compromises.
     
  10. mythusmage

    mythusmage Chieftain

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    It was the Civ3PTW folder I was speaking of.
     
  11. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    As you can see, the references to Civ3PTW are all in the Indian Garrison.ini file, so the BIQ is not involved. As it happens, that is the only file that refers to it in this mod (checked with Spotlight), but other mods can have more references - typically those with a Japanese flavour.

    The BIQ is not the guilty party when I look at pretty well all of the mod incompatibility problems raised here.
     
  12. mythusmage

    mythusmage Chieftain

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    Didn't work, got the same error message I'd gotten before.

    Update: Worked the second time I tried it. Much thanks for your assistance.
     
  13. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    That may be (a) a problem with my instructions or (b) the way I've explained them, or (c) an error when you executed them. I've just run them again, and they worked for me. Here's the terminal sequence I see after I have run the sequence:

    Code:
    
    MacPro:~ alan$ cd /Applications/Civ\ III\ Complete/Conquests\ Game\ Data/Scenarios/AC\ v\ 1\ 50 
    MacPro:AC v 1 50 alan$ ln -s /Applications/Civ\ III\ Complete/Play\ the\ World\ Game\ Data CIV3PTW
    MacPro:AC v 1 50 alan$ ls
    Art		CIV3PTW		Credits		Sounds		Text
    MacPro:AC v 1 50 alan$ 
    
    I typed ls after the sequence to list the contents of the AC v 1 50 folder, showing that the CIV3PTW link file was created.

    If you have done it correctly, you should see the CIV3PTW symlink file in AC v 1 50 in the Finder, and if you double click it you should open the Play the World Game Data folder.
     
  14. mythusmage

    mythusmage Chieftain

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    The second time was the charm. Seems I put in a space where it wasn't supposed to be the first time around.
     
  15. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Great! Pleased to hear it worked for you.
     
  16. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    :deadhorse:
    After all the complaints about scenario makers & scenarios that don't work it seems that the trouble was caused by the Mac game port shortcomings and your own errors. It boils down to the standard issue of directory structures - the Otomo problems are pretty common. I've been playing Alexander for quite a long time and never had to make changes to "core files", let alone do anything at all in the console.

    None, none of this is any scenarist's fault. Blaming them makes about as much sense as complaining about an auto-installer not working under OSX. Stop the senseless grousing & you'll probably get help from others besides AlanH. Instead of people not even bothering to look at the thread once they see who opened it.

    :coffee:
     
  17. timerover51

    timerover51 Chieftain

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    I have never had a complete mod that I downloaded from the site run on my Macs without getting continuous error messages that I decided I did not have the time nor inclination to deal with. I have had success downloading maps with no units attached to them, and maps that call for unique units or resources that I am interested in I cam normally fix by running them through either the Windows box that I bought specifically to edit Civ3, or my son's high school Windows laptop. I use clean resources to clear out non-standard resources, and uncheck Edit Rules to clean out non-standard units. I did manage to create one scenario where I added a Cathaginian War Elephant on the Windows box that will run on my Mac, using standard graphics, and simply adding the unit. After doing that, I decided to stick to developing custom maps, and forget adding units.

    I plan on trying to add some resources to the standard set, and see if I can get that to run on the Mac. Problem there is all of my graphic editing software except for Gimp is on my Mac, and the editor in on one of the Window's boxes, which means that I have to keep switching back and forth, which is a real pain.
     
  18. mythusmage

    mythusmage Chieftain

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  19. timerover51

    timerover51 Chieftain

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    Yes, I have, and I hope that it comes to pass. It is very tiresome trying to go back and forth between the two operating systems.
     

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