Alexis VS Flauros

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I just want to stir up some discussion about which one of the calabim leaders you think is better ( NOT the one you LIKE better, but the one that's more powerful ) , sorry if this has been discussed to death already

Me, I think Flauros is better. Aggressive and Organized are both good traits, and while I do prefer aggressive ( it also helps surviving the early game, calabim's weak spot ) that's not very important. what makes a big difference for me is Flauros' Financial vs Alexis' Philosophical. I'm pretty sure philosophical gives a bonus to production speed of elder councils, which you can't build. and for me, philosophical trait means specialist economy. but as the Calabim, I'm going to use my food to keep cities growing to feast more than for specialists. besides, since I'll be spamming farms everywhere to keep my cities growind quickly as I feast upon them, I'm going to run aristocracy to get cash, and aristocracy takes away food so it's not that great for a SE ( you could argue that taking away food is not that great for feasting either, but I'd rather have tons of cash than some more xp on my vampires ) .

Financial OTOH synergies so well with a farm economy... any farm you build is gonna give 3 commerce instead of 2. now that's quite nice as it means a crapload of extra commerce.


and that's why I prefer Flauros

 

[Seon]

I only play Flauros because I often have problems with my treasury in my games, and Financial trait helps enormously

 

[Humakty]

Even if I rarely use aristocracy (can't remember the last time I did), philosophical is rather a late game trait, in my book, whereas financial almost instantly starts to kicks in, allowing bigger armies early on (and more cities), which offsets the vulnerability you could have had for not being aggressive.

So clearly I find Flauros vastly superior to Alexis. But I'm sure someone can mathematically demonstrate the superiority of philosophical, using a SE. Just I don't like to micromanage my specialist, and often forget to toggle to the ones I most need, plus I find it quite hard in FFH to have just the one I need at the right moment. Whereas financial justs kicks in, and Wee fresh new cash !

 

[odalrick]

Aggressive is a nice trait, but fairly pointless for vampires since you can feed them as much as needed. It also favours early war, which isn't my cup of tea. So for my vampires, organized is clearly the better choice.

(Come to think of it, maybe organized favours early war more than aggressive, since you can keep more cities.)

Philosophical on the other hand requires a specialist economy to have any advantage at all, and that requires much more micromanagement than I care to do. Financial on the other hand gives a huge bonus for no effort at all.

So for me, Alexis versus Flauros comes down to the question: "Do I want a leader with one weak trait, or one with two useful traits?"

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Alexis vs. Flauros = best example of 2 of a civ's leaders being different but balanced.

It's an awesome trait + a bad one (alexis) vs. 2 good ones (flauros).

 

[scutarii]

starting for calabim is very delicate issue and therefore financial helps from start.

Philosophical trait may be very powerful, but not for calabim.

Alexis - change her traits to creative and charismatic. Those traits are not only useful for her but represent better female vampire' ability to "charm and seduce" victims.

 

[Humakty]

If she is to become creative, I hope they'll change her pic too : she really does look aggressive !

 

[Seon]

You know, I always questioned why Alexis had Philosophical trait. She is more like "kill everyone and be done with it" type of person and not a type of person who sit around discussing life and sipping tea

 

[Humakty]

AH ! Good point ! Would I be a Calab philosoph, I wouldn't dare 'have tea' with her. "Hmmm, dear friend, lets have a snack..."

 

[TheGreatSteve]

Philosophical really comes into play late enough that it doesn't much affect a Calabim game for me. And with no elder councils that build bonus is useless. Aggressive is great for taking down a neighbor with Moroi, but kinda fades once I can just give my troops large amounts of exp.

Financial is always a benefit, possibly from turn one. And Organized just makes things easier. I don't remember, does it reduce the needed for Governor's Manors?

 

[Jet]

Alexis has a more consistent early game, less dependent on friendly neighbors and a good start. And not just from Agg. For MP and dangerous SP games, one might prefer Alexis. I don't much mind restarting in SP, so I'd say Flauros.

 

[Jet]

I think the AI Alexis is gimped by having the favorite civic Aristocracy. I don't think non-Financial leaders should ever run it.

 

[Sephi]

heh, and I think Financial leaders should never run it.

Anyway, Flauros is the one and only Godking. Financial and Rivers of Blood turn 1 means that he can get to the important techs a lot faster than Alexis.

 

[JFSebastian]

Its been a while since I've played them, but the one time I did play them it was after reading EverNoob's Alexis - Calabim Guide 0.33. Pretty sure it would still apply to 0.40. I found Alexis to be VERY effective with Moroi and Lasha is just too much fun, especially with the nifty voice files attached to her. More heroes need voices!

 

[heisenberg]

Yep, lack of elders do hurt Alexis' Philo, but then again that sort of makes priests the earlier GP(s) to get, so though you'll be missing the Academy till you get a library up, you could either bulb an early religion with those priests, or bulb your way down the spiritual line (does take a bit of figuring out the bulb order) to get an earlier Losha.

Both leaders are vastly different, and Aggressive Moroi are really a force to be reckoned with early on.

 

[Zechnophobe]

I can't recall the last time I played Alexis. Aggressive is a good trait... but Organized/Financial are just about the best possible combination for the Calabim. Faster to Vampires science wise, and you build the all important Manor's at Double speed. That's a REALLY big point, because of how good they are. The actual production difference over the course of a game in Flauros' empire because of that is surprisingly high. Consider a city that takes 10 turns to build the manse instead of 20. Those 10 turns it produces maybe an extra Hundred production because it is size 10. Multiply that by the number of cities you build in and you get some staggeringly high production comparisons.

 

[Diamondeye]

You consider the Calabims early game their weakest? They are one of the best warriorrushers imo, just follow up with Moroi (and bite the ones that survive the initial wars to get to the higher levels) and break your opponents production with the worldspell...

Leaders.. Uhm... Don't know that, only tried Alexis.

 

[EverNoob]

Alexis is more powerful in the early-mid game when played aggressively.

Flauros struggles in the early game, but really starts to shine as the game progresses and surpasses Alexis on the basis of superior economy.

However, in high difficulty/competitive games early advantage is vital so I think that Alexis is the more powerful leader.

It's essentially a question of play settings. A map that favours a builder style of play would favour Flauros, one that favours early warfare would favour Alexis. But I feel that standard game settings on high difficulty favours Alexis more than Flauros.

It's always good to open discussions abour Flauros vs Alexis, but I think it's counterproductive to debate which is better than the other. Might it be more useful to talk about which leader is better in what situation?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

You consider the Calabims early game their weakest? They are one of the best warriorrushers imo, just follow up with Moroi (and bite the ones that survive the initial wars to get to the higher levels) and break your opponents production with the worldspell...

Leaders.. Uhm... Don't know that, only tried Alexis.

good point. Calabim's weakest point is definitely during the early game though, as the loss of elder councils can hurt. once they get vampires and feasting cities going, there's little that can stop them, especially if you hoard death mana for spectres of doom

 

[Senethro]

There shouldn't really be any discussion here. Financial with Aristocracy farms is pretty close to unstoppable. 300 beakers per turn on Normal at Monarch at turn 200 with Flauros is not difficult to achieve. I was so impressed by a demonstration game doing this that I now run Aristocracy with nearly every civilization.