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ALF 15 - Tokugawa of Japan (Deity)

Silverbow

Prince
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
425
So, I've read a post where vranasm said there's few shadowable games as of late, and little activity in general, so I decided to dust off my (so far failtastic) quest for a deity win on random map (I only won deity on Earth 18, and that's more like settler level anyway :D). I plan to play much slower/smaller segments than I used to last year when I was running this series and got from monarch to immortal.


The record so far:

Monarch:
ALF 1 - Isabella - UN diplomatic win @1915 AD
ALF 2 - Hannibal - AP diplomatic win @1305 AD
ALF 3 - Alexander - UN diplomatic win @1845 AD

Emperor:
ALF 4 - Hammurabi - UN diplomatic win @1828 AD
ALF 5 - Sitting Bull - FAIL
ALF 6 - Zara Yaqob - AP diplomatic win @1806 AD
ALF 7 - Charlemagne - AP diplomatic win @1937 AD

Immortal:
ALF 8 - Pericles - UN diplomatic win @1840 AD
ALF 9 - Willem - FAIL
ALF 10 - Joao - domination win @1858 AD
ALF 11 - Gandhi - UN diplomatic win @1911 AD

Deity:
ALF 12 - Washington - FAIL
ALF 13 - Genghis Khan - FAIL
ALF 14 - Wang Kon - FAIL

The settings for this game:
Deity
Normal speed
Pangaea
NO huts
NO events


The glorious leader I rolled for this game is the ever 'beloved' Tokugawa. Can't have an easy return, can we? Bad traits, meh starting techs and uniques.

The glorious start:


Nothing like starting near the south pole.

WB -> worker -> WB ?
hunting -> archery ?

Those would be my preliminary ideas here I suppose.
 

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Well, this could be a tough one. I'd move the warrior NE and consider settling 1S depending on if he finds anything good. There's a risk though of the 1 S spot having pretty low production, so I'm still not totally sold.
 
Typical Silverbow deity game: bad starting locations and bad lands. Not sure it is the way to go to learn very first deity games. My first were a lil bit more generous than this.

Looking the save right now...interesting blue circle and forestless sport 2N1E.

...
...
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Holy mama.
Never mind about bad start!

Definitely, the tech order changes from what you see right now.
And losing one turn (or sometimes two) isn't the end of the world.
I think in many of my own games, I move from SIP. More often thant usual careful player.
Sometimes, someone may think one turn not lost is huge deal for a wonder for example, but wonders are built in a total random manner. There's no justice there. And if the new settlement is better than the original, sure the first settler will come faster and take a settlement before the AI commits theirs.

So, I've read a post where vranasm said there's few shadowable games as of late, and little activity in general

The hell... :huh:
 
One potential issue is that people may enjoy lurking deity level games but not many people would feel able to shadow the game and may even be reluctant to offer advice because they don't feel sufficiently qualified to do so.
 
Originally Posted by Silverbow
So, I've read a post where vranasm said there's few shadowable games as of late, and little activity in general


The hell...

Lol! There was Masochistic Deity Tokugawa game a few weeks ago so even Toku has been covered. But yeah, lower activity from elite players who inspire people and lower activity from shadowers (maybe because of exams). However, there were deity games to play and it all fell mostly on the backs of Tachywaxon, BornInCantaloup, PeteJ, pixiejmcc and most humble myself. Tachywaxon's Deity Fun Series was renamed into Deity Fail. Maybe people don't feel comfortable playing maps without map knowledge from spoilers.

One potential issue is that people may enjoy lurking deity level games but not many people would feel able to shadow the game and may even be reluctant to offer advice because they don't feel sufficiently qualified to do so.

Totally true. Deity games always have high views/posts ratio. I can tell from my own experience. I joined in May last year and didn't feel comfortable to post anything until October when I achieved sufficient number of deity wins and felt I could offer some advice and show some play.
 
Tachywaxon's Deity Fun Series was renamed into Deity Fail.
Well, the ALF is All Leader Fail too. :goodjob: I started this last year while I was basically noble player, with the aim of getting a deity win eventually.

@Tachy: yeah there is activity for sure (notably from you, Ser and Oz, plus the occassional IU & MS), but the quantity of games and posts can't compare to what it was a year ago. Somewhat strange, as I doubt the debacle that is CiV could be the cause of that.

About the settling spot.... I moved the warrior to the obvious NE



The blue circle is interesting. Picks up wheat & grassland and loses what looks to be coast and either a plains or coast tile. Loses fresh water, but keeps the crabs and furs. Seems like the move to make. I'll probably go 1E with the first settler move, to reveal if I'm not losing anything awesome to the east, then to the blue circle.

So yes tech path should probably be agri first now. After agri, either mining -> BW for chops and prod or hunting -> archery for commerce and barb defense seem both viable. I'd lean to the safe side and go for archery, I had some bad times with barbs on deity in this series (ALF 14 died to them).

Probably worker first, then two WBs for early builds.
 
Movement plans sound good. Unless there's acres of space I would try to fogbust with agg warriors and skip archery, you'll need all the advantages you can get with Toku on a low commerce start. I'd definitely look to go bronzeworking after agriculture to get those workboats chopped out, the seafood commerce will be important here and you'll be able to whip the workers and settlers you need with all that food.
 
In the beginning, settler and worker are the most important, so food>hammer>commerce.

I recommend you to go mining->bw. It is more important to be able to whip and chop, even for the sake of defence.

The aggressive warrior can be easily promoted, so archery can be deprioritized.
 
Well, we have food a plenty. In fact, I really like the capital. Unfortunately, we're totally hemmed in.



I have queued Mining for now, planning for BW and hoping for copper. Barbs won't likely be a problem since we don't seem to have much open land around us, with Hatty right in our face to the north and Hannibal right to the east.

Potential settling spots are sparse - NE of marble to go into Hatty's face isn't bad but kinda far, and then just NW of wheat to share wheat and grab fish. Maybe there's something in the eastern tundra, but I doubt it.
 
Need to see more of the unexplored stuff to the south of your warrior but first impressions are tough land, but good neighbours. You'll probably have to DOW one of them once you have 3 cities, 4 if you're lucky. This goes up if you can beat Hannibal to any unexplored food to your east (which should be your priority).

With 2 grains and 2 other food sources you don't have to worry about freshwater spots. Assuming no more good sites I'd put them 3N1E (wheat share, marble chance), 3E (atop ph, corn/sheep share) and maybe 3S if you're desperate to share a crab.

Tech path for this is mining, BW, wheel.

Starting with fishing so no bulbing tricks, I'd probably hope for horses then go HBR, bulb math and chop some HA's. If not, go for construction. Someone might be able to supply you with ivory but the likelyhood is you'll be catapulting with sword (and maybe eventually samurai) backup. With some luck one your neighbours will build the mids or something tasty for you to take. Keep an eye on what stategic resources each has, set your espionage to both then concentrate when you know who your target is.

If I was playing for fun I'd definitely try to worker steal/then choke Hannibal with a woody warrior at this point, but I guess I'd put that down to feeling like I'd have little to lose with such an ugly start. :p

Is that Hatty's capital or her second city to your NW?
 
2680 BC
Spoiler :

SIP because size 6 grabs all the resources. Ag-Hunting is obvious. I went mining-BW next to chop settlers since we're boxed. AH is next, grab horses and a very early HA tech is possible. Not the best amount of production though and we're waiting on a monument border pop for the fish unfortunately. Can't see what the sheep city will be like :/ Interesting start!




 
Is that Hatty's capital or her second city to your NW?
I think the nearer city is her second one, it popped near the end of the turnset.

Speaking of settling spot, I found one to the east. I also found a very tempting sight and stopped there:


To worker steal or not to worker steal, that's the question here.
 
@AZ if you are around
Spoiler :
I think this one has your name written all over it. I'd like to see an LP from you.

Nice starting spot but overall a very hemmed in position. Hanny can always be trouble this close.

I target HAs and Hatty but Hanny DOW'd me which was no surprise, right as I was really ramping up HAs. Nothing I could do about it. Settled a decent second city and then he plopped right up against it

Probably best to go with a 2 "tight" city HA rush to start. I had 4 cites with a circa 700BC date for war...too late
 
To worker steal or not to worker steal, that's the question here.

Do not, DO NOT! I learnt many many many times in the hard way doing that on deity is instantaneous killer. And Hannibal has very high unit courage, he might strike back.
 
Very tempting. Will two archers strike back at this date? I think they might, could be wrong. If they don't usually do so then I'd go for it, like I said in the previous post it's high risk but if you could get a woody guy off the barbarians or a chopped barracks you should be able to start to choke him a bit and buy yourself time to grab copper.
 
Well actually I didn't dislike the start. 2 food resources, a happy resource and lots of commerce with the fur. And commerce is normally hard to get by with Toku. About the capitol now, what a FOODDDDD!!!!!!!! Damnit it can have Mcdonald, KFC, Pizza hut, Wendy's and about four more fastfood stores and still have food left to spare.
 
Well actually I didn't dislike the start. 2 food resources, a happy resource and lots of commerce with the fur. And commerce is normally hard to get by with Toku. About the capitol now, what a FOODDDDD!!!!!!!! Damnit it can have Mcdonald, KFC, Pizza hut, Wendy's and about four more fastfood stores and still have food left to spare.

Yet with the surrounding land you can get what 1? Or 2 cities? How do you win. :p
 
Nitpicking about the wrong stuff :p. I was only talking about the starting screenshot from which everybody said it was bad. After the initial exploration the surroundings are poor but you can have enough overlap with the capitol (like 1NW of the wheat and 2N of the sheep, settle the other city on the wine if the tundra has some deer, etc...). So it is still possible to get 4 cities up and running.
 
Nitpicking about the wrong stuff :p. I was only talking about the starting screenshot from which everybody said it was bad. After the initial exploration the surroundings are poor but you can have enough overlap with the capitol (like 1NW of the wheat and 2N of the sheep, settle the other city on the wine if the tundra has some deer, etc...). So it is still possible to get 4 cities up and running.

4! Still not gunna beat Deity with 4 sub par cities. >.>
 
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