ALF 8 - Pericles of Greece (Immortal)

[Silverbow]

Following the epically cheesy win in ALF7, it's time to really start losing - Immortal!

The record so far:

Monarch:
ALF 1 - Isabella - UN diplomatic win @1915 AD
ALF 2 - Hannibal - AP diplomatic win @1305 AD
ALF 3 - Alexander - UN diplomatic win @1845 AD

Emperor:
ALF 4 - Hammurabi - UN diplomatic win @1828 AD
ALF 5 - Sitting Bull - FAIL
ALF 6 - Zara Yaqob - AP diplomatic win @1806 AD
ALF 7 - Charlemagne - AP diplomatic win @1937 AD

The settings for the game:
Immortal
Normal speed
Fractal
NO huts
NO events

I'm sure some will say fractal is too unpredictable etc., but I tried pretty much all the realistic map scripts in the series so far (except Medium and small), and it seems the best to me, outside maybe Big and small - Archipelago makes AI dumb, Pangaea and Terra are dreadfully predictable with everyone being nearby, while Hemispheres and Continents are just the opposite yet also predictable.

The leader:

Spoiler :

I like his traits, the UU is axeman with no weakness, and the UB is very nice for culture and certainly much better than plain Colosseum.

And the start:

Spoiler :

Starting techs are no help whatsoever here. Ton of rivers and FPs, two plains hills and plains cow for production, looks really nice for bureau cottage capital.

So I'd think SIP, tech agriculture -> pottery -> AH, perhaps even growing on warrior first before worker?

 

[Fleme]

You should patch to 3.19 - that is a start the likes of which don't exist after you patch.

You have one resource and one strategic resource in the hill (copper, iron, aluminum?) most likely but that's it. The generator should give you more resources even though it values flood plains as something like 0,3 of a resource but still starts like this do screw you over. The patch obviously doesn't remove the infamous "obsolete start" or "plains cow glitch", call it what you may, but it does help. Furthermore, it removes desert rivers (makes them into fps like they should be) - I've seen this issue in screenshots of your previous games.

Therefore my suggestion is to patch and roll again. Patch can be found here

 

[Keilah]

well i'd hardly call a FP start getting screwed ^^

but yeah, you really ought to patch.

 

[Zechnophobe]

So, you need to tech wheel, not agriculture, to get to pottery.

I think this DOES look like a delayed worker start, but I'm not sure. Hmm, so at size two working two flood plains you have 5 per turn towards a worker that's 12 turns for it. It'll take you 8 turns to get there. 8 + 12 = 20 turns. You can get pottery in that time I'm almost positive.

Now, if you instead do agriculture + wheel + Pottery, you could do worker first (15 turns) and then irrigate a square for faster early game growth.

Option 3, Agriculture, Mining, BW, worker first. You'll have plenty to do irrigating a few early squares, and get the critical mines set up for non worker/settler builds. This may well be the best way to go, since production and food are more flexible than simply commerce.

As for where to settle, I see you have maybe three options:

SIP: Not bad, cows eventually, two hills.
NNW: Lose cows, but start with +1 production (first worker finishes turn 13 instead of turn 15). Plains hill changed out for grassland hill, maybe other stuff to the west (scout maybe?). Decent odds of settling on Iron or Copper. (Sorta pro, sorta con)
E: Keep cows, change plains hill for grassland hill. Slightly healthier. Easier to share FP area with second city.

Which is best? Dunno, but I'd consider all of the above when deciding how to move the scout.

 

[obsolete]

Therefore my suggestion is to patch and roll again.

Since he insists on using fractal, let him stick with whatever junky starts he gets anyway. That's the thing I guess he wanted.

 

[huerfanista]

E: Keep cows, change plains hill for grassland hill. Slightly healthier.

I don't think so. Each FP is -0.4 health, rounded down. To get healthier, you'd have to get fewer than 5 FPs. Going from 7 to 6 (or 5, for that matter) makes no difference at all.

 

[Silverbow]

You should patch to 3.19 - that is a start the likes of which don't exist after you patch.

You have one resource and one strategic resource in the hill (copper, iron, aluminum?) most likely but that's it. The generator should give you more resources even though it values flood plains as something like 0,3 of a resource but still starts like this do screw you over. The patch obviously doesn't remove the infamous "obsolete start" or "plains cow glitch", call it what you may, but it does help. Furthermore, it removes desert rivers (makes them into fps like they should be) - I've seen this issue in screenshots of your previous games.

Therefore my suggestion is to patch and roll again. Patch can be found here

I've tried to, I downloaded it, but the installer just does nothing after I click Install. Several people in the comments reported the same issue. Could it have issues with the game being installed in a directory other than the default one?

Since he insists on using fractal, let him stick with whatever junky starts he gets anyway. That's the thing I guess he wanted.

I knew you'd say something about that.

But tell me, do you find Pangaea maps, where everything is always the same, a truly better alternative?


Anyway, onto the game.

Tech path went agriculture -> mining -> BW -> AH -> wheel -> pottery -> aesthetics, IIRC.

I settled in place, built worker first.

Met Victoria, Shaka and Zara:

Spoiler :

Zara was very close, and I got copper in the plains hill, so I built a few phalanxes and went after him:

Spoiler :

Took a city that'll be excellent... after IW:

Spoiler :

Met Washington:

Spoiler :

Sent some reinforcements and took Zara's capital, the buddhist holy city:

Spoiler :

And I finished him off by taking the judaist holy city:

Spoiler :

I founded my second city to grab elephants and corn:

Spoiler :

And saved here.

Diplomacy:

Spoiler :

I have to do something about Shaka, he's way too close to me in two spots. I'm considering teching Mysticism -> Meditation, building a monastery and turning him into Buddhist to lessen the chances of him declaring at me.

Tech situation:

Spoiler :

Only Toku has alphabet yet, and him being Toku, he won't trade it.

My southlands, with two planned cities (atop the horse to work gold & fish, and one in the east to work fish & cow):

Spoiler :

The central lands:

Spoiler :

Note Shaka settled north of Sparta, and will also have elephants.

The northlands:

Spoiler :

Shaka's also north of there. I'm basically boxed in by him.

And finally demographics:

Spoiler :

Top in land, but otherwise meh.

 

[Mylene]

Scouting is very important now, need to know if Shaka has a target..other than you
If Washy is far away, this could be trouble.

 

[Silverbow]

Yeah, you're right. I just noticed, he's actually Buddhist already! Means I gotta convert right away and open borders with him.

 

[vranasm]

Yeah, you're right. I just noticed, he's actually Buddhist already! Means I gotta convert right away and open borders with him.

if he already chose target then it's irrelevant...

btw good job with the rush... in this situation (if you survive eventual Shaka) I would strongly think about moving cap to the north.

there is ton of trees you should have there "ton" of workers to chop there like hell.

I noticed you are not in slavery... worth the thought

I wouldn't tech IW... i would put slider 0% and bpt into Alpha.

 

[Silverbow]

BPT? Bulb?

Slavery is a good idea.

Shaka's annoyed with Washington, and we weren't close before he settled the last two cities. He's likely plotting against him, but one can't be too sure. I suppose if he'd attack I should expect axes/impi/chariots?

 

[vranasm]

BPT? Bulb?

Slavery is a good idea.

Shaka's annoyed with Washington, and we weren't close before he settled the last two cities. He's likely plotting against him, but one can't be too sure. I suppose if he'd attack I should expect axes/impi/chariots?

he likes impis which is good since your UU is axe based

bpt = beakers per turn... you employed some scientists so you generate even on 0%... so put them into alpha and eventually trade with aesth

 

[lymond]

I've tried to, I downloaded it, but the installer just does nothing after I click Install. Several people in the comments reported the same issue. Could it have issues with the game being installed in a directory other than the default one?

You should have the option to redirect the path in which the patch installs. Also, make sure you run the executable using the "run as administrator" option. You really should try to get the 3.19 patch installed.

 

[Silverbow]

I played to 375 AD. Next turn prompts a big decision I'd like feedback on.

Toku declared on Washington, and I hoped Shaka would do the same. Alas:

Spoiler :

I was finally able to trade for alphabet:

Spoiler :

Used GS to build academy in capital:

Spoiler :

Shaka's first wave of swords and impis got summarily slaughtered attacking Aksum, but he asked for absurd peace terms:

Spoiler :

Second wave of Shaka's is about to die:

Spoiler :

Afterwards he was willing to talk peace, but I got greedy and decided to take his elephants city:

Spoiler :

And I made peace with him afterwards:

Spoiler :

My second GS I settled in the capital:

Spoiler :

Shaka then declared on Victoria:

Spoiler :

I teched Currency and traded it to Washington:

Spoiler :

The diplomacy at 375 AD:

Spoiler :

The tech situation:

Spoiler :

The abysmal demographics:

Spoiler :

How can the AIs afford such absurd armies?

And my southlands:

Spoiler :

And northlands:

Spoiler :

Now, to the question. On next turn, Shaka will ask me to join his war against Victoria. Should I do so?

Now, on next turn after where I made the save, Shaka will ask me to join his war on Victoria.

 

[michmbk]

Welcome to immortal - it's a tough level. Axe rushes (even with phalanxes) are pretty rarely successful on immortal. Surprised that Zara didn't have more defenses than he did for the timeframe - they won't usually work out that well on immortal. Only two defenders in his capital 10 turns after your war declaration is a really lucky break.

On this level, you can expect the AI to have pretty big armies, and be able to easily afford them - their bonuses are huge at this level.

Shaka is extremely dangerous on higher levels, because he can very easily become a total runaway AI. Probably not a bad idea to join him in war - don't let him get too big and take over all the other AI.

Also, settling GS is not as recommended on this level - you'll probably want to try to have the first for an academy and the second to bulb philo. Tech trading becomes huge to keep up with the AI bonuses, so techs like aesthetics and philo are great trade bait because the AI often doesn't prioritize. You can probably get away with it because Pericles is PHI, but with other leaders, losing the philo bulb can hurt in terms of trying to stay with the AI.

 

[Silverbow]

Welcome to immortal - it's a tough level. Axe rushes (even with phalanxes) are pretty rarely successful on immortal. Surprised that Zara didn't have more defenses than he did for the timeframe - they won't usually work out that well on immortal. Only two defenders in his capital 10 turns after your war declaration is a really lucky break.

Zara was really stupid with his units. I think he had some in the first city, then he had 3 in second city, but moved one axeman out. I think he wanted to retake the first city, but that got him killed out in the open by a phalanx. He also built a Buddhist missionary while I was waiting for reinforcements.

Then he had a few more guys or so in the last town. He also had a spearman and archer roaming around without pulling them back to defend.

I probably got lucky that I went for BW fast and pre-mined the hill where copper spawned, and that the hill was on river.

Also, settling GS is not as recommended on this level - you'll probably want to try to have the first for an academy and the second to bulb philo. Tech trading becomes huge to keep up with the AI bonuses, so techs like aesthetics and philo are great trade bait because the AI often doesn't prioritize. You can probably get away with it because Pericles is PHI, but with other leaders, losing the philo bulb can hurt in terms of trying to stay with the AI.

The thing is, he would've only have bulbed mathematics, which I don't think is that good idea to bulb.

Any guesstimate on how many units should I have defending the border cities with Shaka?

 

[Silverbow]

I played onto 1450 A. I won the lib race, took nationalism (but didn't build Taj), and teched to rifling. It's at that point that I saved, as there's a question of war.

So Shaka came asking me to join, and I did:

Spoiler :

I got some trades done with Washington:

Spoiler :

I bulbed philosophy:

Spoiler :

And traded it:

Spoiler :

City that Shaka took off Victoria flipped to me:

Spoiler :

Another sciencist partly bulbed education:

Spoiler :

Another city of Victoria's, which Shaka took twice, she took it back twice, both lost ton of units there... and then I took it for myself:

Spoiler :

Teched paper and traded it to Washington:

Spoiler :

Shaka made peace with Victoria, so I did too. She wanted Canterbury, but I bribed her off with Philosophy:

Spoiler :

I won the lib race at 1100 AD:

Spoiler :

My attempts to make Shaka friendly were not successful:

Spoiler :

Traded education to Washington so I could backfill:

Spoiler :

And gave lib to Victoria when she demanded it:

Spoiler :

Shaka asked me to stop trading with Washington, and I gave in:

Spoiler :

Even that didn't bring that bugger to friendly.

He's been assembling a stack near my borders:

Spoiler :

No fist to show war plotting, but he's not willing to go after Toku (friend), Victoria or Washington (nothing to gain). So I started to churn out units in the city south of his stack, longbowmen and catapults, to crush his stack once he attacks.

And then rifling finished, and there's the possibility of mass drafting/whipping/building rifles and simply taking Shaka out. Should I?

Of note, the one off-shore unknown civ has circumnavigated the globe.

Also, I have two scientists ready, but they'd only bulb Astronomy and then Scientific method...

The diplomacy:

Spoiler :

Shaka is not friendly even at +11...

The tech situation:

Spoiler :

No one's even close to rifling.

And demographics:

Spoiler :

 

[Fleme]

Ahh! There's that desert river again! I should stop following this series because those things bug me to no end!

 

[Silverbow]

You should have the option to redirect the path in which the patch installs. Also, make sure you run the executable using the "run as administrator" option. You really should try to get the 3.19 patch installed.

I keep trying. Running the patch exe prompts me to select language, then there's a licence acceptance, two nexts (I uncheck the newsletter spam box) and no options to configure anything. And on the last next when it's supposed to install it does nothing.

Ahh! There's that desert river again! I should stop following this series because those things bug me to no end!

What's so terrible about desert rivers in particular?

 

[Fleme]

something about a 0/1/0 tile (that is unimprovable save for watermills) where there should be a 3/1/0 tile instead is to me a screaming injustice.