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Aliens should upgrade with time

Discussion in 'CivBE - Ideas and Suggestions' started by Cannes, Nov 1, 2014.

  1. Cannes

    Cannes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    As it is now aliens are only of any consequence in the early part of the game. They should become stronger over time, perhaps in line with the faction that has the highest harmony affinity, as the dna from all the experiments and creations leaks into the indiginous spieces.
    Not that they should become as strong as the true xeno (whats their name huge manticore thingamajings?) that requires 7 xenomass to build? But they should definitely become stronger, perhaps upto 60-75% strength of the highest upgraded solider unit.
     
  2. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,296
    My proposal:

    Bioweapon Center: Wonder (Alien Ethics)...quote "This is monstrous" Dr. Weaver [redacted]
    Allows you to upgrade wild aliens based on your Harmony Affinity level
    Alien Hostility will increase towards civs you are at war with

    Wolf Beetles, upgrade at harmony 6, 11
    Manticores, upgrade at harmony 7, 12
    Raptor Bugs, upgrade at harmony 8, 13
    Drones, upgrade at harmony 9, 14
    Sea Dragons, upgrade at harmony 10, 15
    Siege worms, upgrade at harmony 11, 16
    Kraken, upgrade at harmony 12, 18

    Artificial Nest: (Alien Domestication)
    Building... cannot be in same city as an Ultrasonic fence, consumes ?? Xenomass, requires Harmony level 8?10
    spawns alien units every X turns
    makes aliens friendly towards you (same as a normal nest inside your territory)
     
  3. Promethian

    Promethian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    282
    I agree that they need to grow but I think just increasing their power based on number of turns that has passed would be enough.
     
  4. Orgull

    Orgull Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    50
    100% agreed. Aliens scaling up in power as time passea os sorely needed!
     
  5. Potenzo

    Potenzo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    73
    I think that's a great idea.

    The way things are currently structured, those pesky humans are gradually and inevitably spreading their own environment across Planet. Purity's mission is to turn Planet into a copy of Old Earth (or a Venture Parks version of Earth), destroying Planet's biological distinctiveness in the process.

    Planet needs a chance to fight back, and Harmony are the guys to help it do so.

    Perhaps Harmony could be given a couple of other Planet-friendly options too:
    • A covert ops mission that makes an alien nest spawn moderately near a city (say, 5-6 tiles away)
    • A wonder that causes a new alien nest to spawn somewhere in the world every few turns (even within someone's borders or on a previously upgraded tile)
    • Planet Carver: if Planet Carver attack kills a unit it spawns an alien nest on that tile, surrounds spawns miasma on each tile around the alien nest, alien nest immediately spawns an alien, and Planet Carver de-orbits (i.e. one-shot).
     
  6. terraslayer

    terraslayer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    Frankly, I disagree. Mostly because it will likely hurt the AI players much more than human players. That is because they always attack aliens on sight. While the Human player can most likely be peaceful with them all game. Even if the aliens get stronger they will still be passive. Unless a feature is also added that will increase their aggression towards everyone as they get stronger. But then that beats the point in being peaceful with them since the beginning of the game.
     
  7. Bezurn

    Bezurn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    587
    While ground aliens are pretty tame, (save the predictable siege worm) - the oceans on the other hand seem to be a nest of temperamental squid and grouchy krakken. Usually you need a small pack of ships to brave the waters, and if you are harmony and haven't been able to turn the aliens blue, then you will have to attack them as well in order to get around.

    Increasing alien combat strength would further increase the gains any might virtue player gains from farming the aliens. And the farming of alien nests is already very predictable as the nest spawn at a set amount of turns. This might be okay, as the might tree is kind of lacking, but it does have some nice perks if playing the war game is your thing.

    I think it is fine that aliens are out paced by humans, as this reflects the technological gains we as humans have made over the native life forms. Harmony players introduce harder alien life by breeding them and utilizing them in their units, which makes more sense than equipping barbarians with machine guns.
     
  8. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,724
    Location:
    Liverpool, UK
    I think the bigger problem, really, is how fast the human units scale in strength. They're just too strong after a single upgrade which also affects regular warfare - when you time it right, the first upgrade can help you to do rushes - a bit too effectively.

    So, personally, I'd just compress the range of unit strengths, leaving the capstone affinity units (LEV Destroyer, ANGEL, Xenotitan) as they are because they are not worth the resources anyway. That would solve both problems.

    If that's not enough, I'd just let aliens spawn with increasing levels of veterancy as the game progresses.

    Only if these two changes don't do anything, I'd starting looking at more involved systems.

    PS: Harmony really needs an ability to capture aliens, though, I think - a bit like the ability Bismarck has in Civ5, that'd be fun.
     
  9. Ryoga

    Ryoga Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    993
    I believe this isn't much due to a different script but because naval units are so inherently squishy.

    The reason terrestrial units do not attack your soldiers is because they are essentially equal on strength and aliens do not see valid reasons to risk their skin. But if you put near them a basic ranger and they'll think it's food and attack.
     
  10. Potenzo

    Potenzo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    73
    If that's the case, making them stronger should make them more aggressive. And if we need to make them more aggressive still in mid-game, slowing the rate of return-to-neutral may do it
     
  11. Fabio1701

    Fabio1701 Chieftain

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    Feb 10, 2014
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    747
    Location:
    Wassenaar, NL
    I agree. while they are at it, make worms spread miasma and actually attack cities. When a worm appears the citizens ahould be cowering in fear, not going "oh well, guess I'll stay indoors and play some minecraft".
     
  12. kipwheeler

    kipwheeler Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Messages:
    238
    I'm not sure I'd go with the "aliens increase stats over time" method--doesn't seem to make much sense without lore behind it.

    Rather, what I'd like to see is a sort of randomized events that cause monstrous problems focused on alien life-cycles. I.e., I'd like to see random hexes with miasma have a percentage chance of biological disasters:

    (1) "Nest Upgrades": If a nest hasn't been cleared by x turns (+/- random number), the nest upgrades to a spawning ground. It develops a ranged attack, develops a chance of spreading miasma to a random adjacent tile each turn, and the number of aliens it produces each turn increases. The Upgrades come in different flavors--one for each alien species--so one type produces manticores, another drones, and so forth. However, the new aliens are significantly tougher than the old one--maybe +50% hit points and +50% attack damage, and have some different color or different markings to make them distinct from non-upgraded examples.

    (2) "Mating Ball": Just as many snake species form mating balls, in which dozens or hundreds of males show up in the presence of a female, we could have as a random event an uncontrolled nest have a percent chance of turning into a mating ball for siege worms. The nest undergoes a visible metamorphosis of some sort over 5-10 turns (to give players a chance to deal with the issue), and at the end of the metamorphosis, 2-7 siege worms begin migrating toward it--all of them with heightened aggression as they seek to mate.

    (3) "Cocoon": The designers could pick two or three species of aliens randomly each game as those that pupate. If these species of aliens are still alive at turn 200 (+/-10%) without being wiped out, they pupate over 30 turns and become something similar to Xeno-Titans, but computer-controlled and hostile. If players find the cocoons before the metamorphosis is complete, they can wipe them out easily enough. If they hatch, there's a whole new problem to deal with. I imagine this being particular relevant on unoccupied continents/islands that players neglect. This might add an element of danger to late-game colonization of new unexplored areas. Without these metamorphoses, there's little danger in trying to set up shop in new areas. It also provides an incentive to explore new areas thoroughly late game. Any unexplored areas with nests will potentially be generating cocoons.

    (4) "Hundred Year Migrations": We already know that Kraken tend to cluster together in late game. Perhaps very so often they act like salmon and migrate upstream--coming onto land!

    (5) If aliens are less of a threat late game, perhaps late game after turn 200 is the time to throw in a few random cataclysmic events--tornadoes/hurricanes, meteor strikes, volcanic eruptions (that create new Canyons and Geothermal resources, but which destroy worked tiles), meteor strikes, landslides near mountains, tsunamis, and terraformation disasters, for instance? Perhaps certain wonders like the Tectonic Anvil or certain technologies like Weather Control satellites might grant immunities to these cataclysmic events? I'm not sure making aliens tougher is the only way to make the late game challenging--maybe the planet could show its inhospitable nature in other ways. I would find it interesting if these disasters actually changed the terrain tiles in some limited way--it would just be a design challenge to do this without making the outcome unbalancing and random, but still interesting and challenging.
     
  13. silvertuerk

    silvertuerk Chieftain

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    +1, and friendly nests could yield some science because alien lifeforms could be really interesting scientifically.
     
  14. Lglenhaber

    Lglenhaber Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
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    This is a great idea! Maybe in order to make a xeno titan, it would need to grow in a cacoon this way
     
  15. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Apr 3, 2004
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    12,296
    That's why I'd like to see it as something a player does. Some player (presumably one that is friendly with the aliens) increases the strength of the aliens... and makes the aliens more hostile to their enemies.




    Another thing to do is to flatten out unit strength

    if Soldiers changed from
    10-14-24-48
    to
    10-14-20-30

    and other units changed similarly (Evolved Xenotitans at strength 75 for example) then a Str 48 worm might be more significant late game.... (cities+defensive buildings would also have to change)
     
  16. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
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    Location:
    Buenos Aires
    I commented the following in the thread of my own Alien Strains mod.

    Basically, I'm pondering the possibility of giving the aliens time-based upgrades down the road.

    It may or may not have to be accompanied by AI bonuses so they aren't hamstrung by the alien ramp-up.
     

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