[BTS] All hail Randomnius of the Almighty Randoms!

[oynaz]

Hi guys and gals.

Long time Civ player here. I recently decided to drop the tediousness of Civ5 and Civ6, and move back to Civ4. And I had forgot how much better it is. Time to have some fun.

I thought it would be fun to make a totally random game, and share it with you guys, so here goes. I spiced it up with aggressive AI and Raging barbs, just because I could, and I wanted a change from the anemic opponents of Civ6.

I hope you guys will join the fun.

We ended up with the Russian traits (we are, of course, Almighty Randomnia), possibly the worst combination in an Aggresive AI, Raging barbs game, in what looks like a subpar start. Well, I am up for a challenge.

So, where to move the scout, what to research, and, most importantly, which overall strategy to follow?

Scout: 1 SE so can use his greater move next turn?

Research: Archery or bronze working. I do not think copper is nearby, but chopping will be paramount. Archery for the hordes of barbs soon to come. I lean toward bronze working.

Overall strategy: Ooof. Tough one. It depends on whether or not we have a food resource near the capital, but I doubt it. I think the best bet will be a very early chop-fueled REX, getting perhaps 4 cities up early. To that end, I think we should go Scout-Worker-Settler in the capital, hopefully beating the barbs with our first city. Or is that too risky? Perhaps those early chops should go to units?

I look forward to your thoughts.

 

[krikav]

I would want to settle on top of the marble, (Can settle on T0) or on the PH (Good because it's on a hill.)
I would send scout north to see if I leave some resource behind by making this move.

Scout N, NW up on the grasshill. That would also reveal the tile NW of the cows.

 

[AcaMetis]

Definitely settle the PH, maybe the NW grass hill if the Scout reveals like wet corn or something. Raging Barbs and no clue how much barb pressure you'll be facing means settling on hills.

 

[lymond]

No clue why you'd start with a scout or ever build a scout in general. Raging barbs changes the dynamic quite a bit, but on emperor I think you can still start with a worker. Especially with Hunt start tech, you can always go Archery next (which I rarely tech ever, but with raging barbs it might be necessary).

I agree to send scout NW of settler position on that hill as it will grab a good view. If nothing lost then settling on marble good, or PH 1SE for bonus as well, plus benefit of hill defense if it comes to that.

Normally food should be your first thought with regards to tech, but in case of tons of forest and poor food, if that is indeed the case, then BW may well be the best first tech. (you don't have to select a tech until Turn 5) Plains cow does not warrant AH first since all that forest, but if you luck into a pigs then maybe AH first.

 

[oynaz]

Scout first is a holdover from Civ 6 where it is normally a solid first build. I moved the scout to the NW hill. Nothing there.
I decided to settle the plains hill and moved the settler there. Dammit. That is one tile from the coast, isn't it?

 

[lymond]

Nothing wrong really with settling 1 tile of coast. Only issue is if you lose out on seafood.

yeah, scouts were a thing in 5 and 6...not here (most here play without huts and events anyway, but even so, on higher levels your lucky to get 1 or 2 huts at most so they really benefit the AI far more since they start with 2 scouts.)

 

[Gumbolt]

I think he is using huts. So scout has marginal value. Fog gazing there is grassland in fog 2NE of marble so chance of a resource. Gold vs early worker and early chopping.

Playing high sea level setting which should mean less land on map. 1065 land tiles.

Will certainly need some fogbusting here pending on empty land. Bards will enter borders much sooner here.

 

[Marvinlegend]

Could be a lake as well, I think the tooltip of the tiles next to it can give info about that. Depending on what settling reveals I'd consider starting with a worker and let the city grow, since there isn't much to work for your worker right now anyway.

 

[oynaz]

Oh yes, the tooltip can tell it. It is coast. At the beginning of the next turn, the blue circle popped op 1 NE of my settler. Suspecting a food resource up there, I took a chance and moved the settler. I was right - dry rice, actually would have made the very first position of the settler quite decent. Now I am 2 turns in with a subpar capital, but at least the scout revealed a decent second city site on the plains hill next to the fish.
So, what to build in the capital? I think I have to get a second city going soon. I can make a worker in 15 turns, fitting nicely with bronze working in 16 turns. I can make a warrior in 4 turns, if I let the city stagnate. I can also actually get a settler out in 16 turns, which could lead to a very early 2nd city - after the barb animals start roaming, but before the barbs start entering my territory. IIRC. Hmm, what do you guys think? I kinda lean towards the settler.

Oh, and check out the spot of jungle. I think the random generator have thrown up a dry climate.

 

[AcaMetis]

I'd say worker/BW first, leading into Archery unless you find copper.

 

[Fippy]

I cannot resist pointing out that moving off that plains hill, for rather useless coastal access, makes for a severe mistake
You should really reload that, it's early and no info gained anyways.

 

[lymond]

I was right -.

No, actually you were wrong. You should have settled on the plains hill(PH), which basically everyone recommended you do. Couple of coastal tiles are irrelevant. In addition you get the bonus hammer.

As My said above, I would replay that. Very bad decision and a waste. You gain absolutely nothing with that move and lost 2 turns in the process.

So, what to build in the capital? I think I have to get a second city going soon. I can make a worker in 15 turns, fitting nicely with bronze working in 16 turns. I can make a warrior in 4 turns, if I let the city stagnate. I can also actually get a settler out in 16 turns, which could lead to a very early 2nd city - after the barb animals start roaming, but before the barbs start entering my territory. IIRC. Hmm, what do you guys think? I kinda lean towards the settler.

Not sure if you are really looking for advice or just having fun with collaboration, but most here tend to think optimally. I'm inclined to start with AG>BW. AG is cheap and gets you at least some early growth going. You can farm the rice and the marble (nice early tiles, which should time about right with BW for chops. Then you can decide on Archery or AH depending on what the map reveals and how easy it will be to spawnbust to avoid barbs entirely, which:

Spoiler barbie :

I actually did in my brief playthrough. No barbs at all except a couple of early warriors that I killed out in the wilds with my warriors in busting position

Interesting map script by the way..never think I knew it exists...appears a little bit combo of fractal and small continents type. But it is random-something or nother so maybe map comes out very different each time.

 

[Fippy]

Farming marble also makes a nice example of being flexible with tiles,
sometimes when lacking techs for the "real" improvement, it's good if you can do something else with them cos they are still better than nothing
In your start there's no hill visible for mining early, and marble can give you a 4 yield tile instead (making it better for settlers than rice, with IMP).
Often doing that with hill pigs or sheep, when i need something else than AH early.

We can also talk a bit about what your scout found, how would you rate the fish area?
Any settling spots that you like there, Oynaz?

 

[Amao]

Farming marble also makes a nice example of being flexible with tiles,
sometimes when lacking techs for the "real" improvement, it's good if you can do something else with them cos they are still better than nothing
In your start there's no hill visible for mining early, and marble can give you a 4 yield tile instead (making it better for settlers than rice, with IMP).
Often doing that with hill pigs or sheep, when i need something else than AH early.

We can also talk a bit about what your scout found, how would you rate the fish area?
Any settling spots that you like there, Oynaz?

Would he have settled in place, he would be able to connect the fish site with 2 tiles of roading. Now he needs 3 and pay a little more for distance cost.

 

[oynaz]

You are, of course, right. Settling on the hill is much better. The fun part is: I forgot to save that game...
(Truthfully!)

So, on reload, I decided to the sensible thing and settle the hill. That still leaves room for a good city 1E of the fish. That spot is decent but not great.

I plan to build warrior (if I go worker first while teching BW, he will have nothing to do for 4 turns) - worker - chop a settler, while teching Bronze Working, Fishing (for city #2), then Animal husbandry if I do not have copper, Farming if I have. This will leverage the Imperialistic trait, and the forests.
Farming and animal husbandry first while building a worker also has merit, but the worker will run out of things to do before Bronze working is in, if my math is correct.

BTW, that map script was included with the game. I gave my old copy of Civ4 and BtS to a hot nurse some years ago, and recently bought the complete package again at GOG.

 

[lymond]

Definitely worker first then AG>BW, as I mentioned earlier. Farming rice and marble should time just about right to BW. You can then build warriors to grow and put forest chops into settlers. AH possibly next if no copper.

at hot nurse

 

[oynaz]

Randomnius enjoyed the splendid view from his palace, and decided to make his first decree:

"You there, mister advicer man. Yes, you! I am ready to make my first decree. You are all a bunch of lazy slobs. No sex until you have learned how to work!"

"No sex? But, bit sir. That way our population will not grow."

"Wait, what? Is that how it works? Why the fudge do we tolerate those damned storks, then?"

"Those... storks?"

"Yes, storks! Always chittering and chattering with their long legs and their long, nasty, pointy beaks. They are all planning something. I can tell. Get rid of them!"

"...OK."

"And I meant it. No sex!"

--
Greatview started a worker, due in 12 turns. 1st tech was agriculture. The scout started a counterclockwise circuit, and found a jungle to the SW. I moved him through it on a whim, and got Agriculture from a hut. I had almost researched it anyway at that point, but it cut 2 turns off, IIRC. Started teching BW

And then:

Ooooh! A hot nurse! Isabella seems to be to my NE.

My scout defeated a lion, ran away from a bear, then was eaten by another lion.

Worker done. Sex resumes in Greatview. The worker went to the rice field, and made a farm after scaring away the storks. Afterwards, I moved him to the marble and started another farm.

Bronze working done. No copper nearby. Worker is only 2 turns form finishing the marble farms (that is how marble works, right?), so I tend to let him finish it before chopping.

The plan is to grow while making some warriors and putting chops into a settler, then settling Fishy Hill. This will give my 3 warriors, 1 worker and 2 cities in 15 turns or so. What should I tech now? AH reveals horse and lets me pasture the cow. Fishing is needed for Fishy Hill. I will need some solid military soon, so archery might also be a good idea. Thoughts?

 

[Gumbolt]

Settling plains hill/worker first 100% right move here. Do you need archery here? You can probably fogbust well enough with warriors?

 

[AcaMetis]

Can definitely fogbust the south and west with just Warriors and Creative culture, and Izzy is apparently to the NE, so maybe there won't be too much barb pressure. I'd say Fishing -> Archery for techs, Archery -> Fishing if that doesn't delay your second city. Izzy might take care of the barbs, she might build Great Wall, and no Copper for Axes.

 

[lymond]

I would go AH now for the cow and finding horses. Maybe kill Izzy early.

I would not have recommended moving the scout through jungle when you need to scout your immediate area for cities nearby, as well as the danger. Scout is a good fogbuster but he is no more.