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All hail the conquering... loser

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Chepas, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. Chepas

    Chepas Chieftain

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    So, there I was, playing as Germany, continents, 6 civs. I'd just turned the corner after some early invasions by France and Sumeria, picking up some bombards and musketeers after building a very isolated outpost to swipe some niter. The Hansas/Commercial districts are starting to kick in, I'm finally comfortable with the size of my military, etc.
    I check the victory stats out of curiosity -- I had a small but growing lead. Then I noticed... Japan, on the other continent and otherwise friendly, had converted all civs but mine to his religion, AND he had about 40% of my cities with religious units running around!
    I had no choice put to muster a hasty, desperate expedition force of 2 bombards, 2 field cannons, 2 musketeers, and 2 knights to circle the globe while everyone else worked on defending the local borders and inquisitioning any religious units. (I ignored religion, and didn't get my own, so I had no way of countering via faith units! I figured, 6 civs, come on, at least someone else would have a home religion... all founded, but Japan dominated them all. Ouch.)
    So, the band of brothers arrives on the shoreline. Desperate fighting by knights and muskets to clear room for the field cannons and bombards in the swarm of samurai and swordmen. The holy city is on hills, halfway surrounded by mountains and a lake, etc. It is bloody. I finally gain a foothold big enough to hit the city with bombards. After sacrificing several units for turns of bombardment, the city drops to zero, and a musket walks in... victory! My civ is saved!

    Nope.

    The defeat screen comes on. Acquiring that city, naturally of the Japanese religion, apparently converted my civ to that religion. My attempt to save my civ by taking the holy city led to my demise.

    I... cannot... believe... this. Thoughts? Could I have done something different (besides, you know, not ignoring religion the whole game?) Loser.png

    (edit: two typos)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  2. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Well, now you'll know not to take cities that would tip the scales for AI RV ;)

    What you could have done, apart from glancing at the victory tabs from time to time, was not taking cities, but killing Japan's religious units with your military when at war, and preferably close to other cities. That would have diminished his religious presence, might have even brought back some other religion. Also, if some of your cities had other religion, you could have built some religious districts of your own there and try to spread it to counter Japan's.
     
    Chepas likes this.
  3. Sherlock

    Sherlock Just one more turn...

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    When you're at war you can kill the AI's religious units with your military units, yes?
     
  4. craney1987

    craney1987 Warlord

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    Oh wow. I would have tried the same. I didn't think a cop could win a religious victory without their holy city? Does that mean the game always calculates player before AI?
     
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  5. Chepas

    Chepas Chieftain

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    Yes, and I did a kill a few in my territory right after I declared war, which actually reduced his religion (marginally). He retreated all his religious units the next turn away from my territory. Killing them in Sumeria (besides having to start a second war by crossing the border) would not have been enough to unconvert that civ. The AI was smart (gasp) to take away the one thing that could bail me out.

    I guess so? It was also his capital, so I did not have a choice to raze it, but the defeat screen popped up *instantly* when I took the city -- didn't even get the pop-up with the keep/raze option (raze blacked out) until after the defeat video and me telling it "one more turn..."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2018
  6. Draco84

    Draco84 Warlord

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    Quick and dirty solution would have been to settle a city or two before taking that city. Keeping you under 50%.

    It being a capital kinda sucks, I think (???) if you capture it, then let loyalty convert it to a free city, you can then recapture and Raze it.
     
  7. Chepas

    Chepas Chieftain

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    Great idea on the quick settling of a couple cities! Hadn't thought of that.
    (I don't have R&F yet, but ending that religion once and for all would have been worth any warmongering penalty.)

    So I went back 3 turns to an autosave and used Draco84's advice. I founded a city in the snow, then captured the capital/holy city. I did not lose the game. As an experiment, I played a few more complete turns then allowed Japan to convert another one of my home continent cities (during the ensuing peace treaty). Despite solidly holding the holy city (including Japan cede'ing it to me at the peace talks), I lost instantly.
    Lesson: capturing a holy city will not prevent a religious victory.
    I could have swore that in an earlier patch I saw under one of the religion's info screen "holy city conquered" and the city wasn't even listed... anyone else remember that? Has something changed?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2018
  8. Turrdy

    Turrdy Prince

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    i think a player can even lose every city and still kinda "win" a religious victory, if the religion survives!
    Remember: the religion belongs to the player who founded it and not to the player who holds the holy city. (if that was true OP would have won a religios victory in that moment)
     
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  9. Mr. Shadows

    Mr. Shadows Nomad of the time streams

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    I'd like to point out that just because you didn't found a religion doesn't mean you can't spread other religions. If you have a holy site in a city with a "safe" religion you can spread it to protect yourself from one that is becoming dominant. This also works if you aren't worried about the religion and want to use one of its benefits.
     
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  10. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    It would still keep its status of 'Original capital'. And you can't raze original capitals.
     
  11. Draco84

    Draco84 Warlord

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    I wasn't sure if that was the case as you can raze city States that way.
     

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