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All leader portraits

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by nunor, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. Xandinho

    Xandinho Emperor

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    In my opinion, France is certainly the European Civ that more deserves to be in the game, alongside England, Greece and the Roman Empire.

    Leave France out in a game of great civilizations and empires of history, it is certainly a great offense to the great achievements of this country.
     
  2. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Believe me, animation is more work than modeling. Civ6's leader screens are by no means less labor intensive than Civ5's.
     
  3. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    Bringing this thread back to the screenshot:

    I looked carefully at the the First Look video this screenshot came from, and I strongly suspect that (at least some of) the footage is older than May of this year:

    - Most of the people are wearing long-sleeved shirts or hoodies. I haven't researched historical temperatures, but it looks more like Maryland winter clothes than late spring. (Yes, a few are in short-sleeves, but some people wear short-sleeves all year round.)

    - There's a blurry wall calendar at 0:53. October is in bottom left, with July-August-September in the row above, and the July 4, Labor Day, and Columbus Day holidays are clearly X-ed out. It's 2016 based on the day each month starts. There is nothing on October 21. It seems that if the launch date were set when the video was taken, there would be something on that date.

    The upshot? We can't be *at all* sure that these leaders are set in stone as Vanilla 18 + 4 DLC. I suspect that most of the ones from the expected civs are correct, but I also expect that at least one of the 22 will not show up in Vanilla or initial DLC and wouldn't be surprised if ones not in the screenshot do.
     
  4. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification (I'm going to take it as read that you know what you're talking about ;) )

    If we do see multiple leaders per Civ, I wonder if the backdrops will be reused? They're all suitably generic that I could definitely see this happening, although some of them are a bit bleh (England, America) so that would be a shame. I imagine the backdrops are just painted by one artist, though, so I imagine it wouldn't cut down on that much of the work.
     
  5. VermelhoRed

    VermelhoRed Prince

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    See Somni's reactions to that:
    Spoiler :


    What? I never said you said anything, you're the one putting words in my mouth! I said I think you thought it was implicit people would agree with you! You said plenty of times "leader X had more land area" as if you thought that was enough of an argument to defend your point.

    And for most of the conversation, I feel you've implicitly thought everyone would think the same. I specifically don't, and Firaxis doesn't too, btw.

    What?? What is even "historically" "important"? Important to whom? Is historical significance some sort of f(x,y,z) where x is the land area, y is the number of wars won, and z the time a ruler spent ruling? Are you even a historian, or have read historians? Because I don't think they do "historical significance" ratings to different cultures, but I guess I might be wrong.
     
  6. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    Well, obviously not objectively. That goes without saying, and is what people should assume; I may not specify so, but I am clearly giving opinions.

    I'm just impressed you even remember me making that argument! I remember it now that you bring it up though.

    Now you are being presumptive; I never said I didn't care about personality. But, I think you'll find that there are distinct personalities to many of the Civ 5 leaders, even if that did not come through in the design of the game. Civ games in the past have not offered in depth looks at the personalities of leaders, and so many like you may have decided that certain leaders are not interesting or distinct personalities, when in reality, the belief systems, ideologies, thought processes and personalities of these leader may all be very distinct. These leaders were real people, not cardboard cut-outs. It is easy to dismiss certain leaders as being not especially interesting, but you have to remember that that in fact cannot be true; these people had a lot to think about, and a lot of pressures on them, and they all will have reacted to these in different ways. For example, Attila and Genghis Khan appeared very similar in Civ 5. Both conquering warlords, both trigger happy when it comes to conflicts. But, in reality, though there are similarities, there are differences too; here is an interesting article . One key difference noted in this article is:
    Here are some interesting articles regarding the similarities and differences between some important and famous leaders, and what made some leaders great:
    -Louis XIV and Phillip II
    -Hitler and Stalin
    -Napoleon and Washington
    -Ashoka and Qin Shi Hunag
    -Sitting Bull and Geronimo

    My problem with Gandhi is that he never either officially or unofficially ruled India. He was just a protest leader. It would be like Martin Luther King leading the USA (though I cannot help but admit to finding that quite an interesting idea, even if that is more than a little hypocritical:mischief:).
     
  7. ImperialChaos

    ImperialChaos President

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    So any new updates? Or is it pretty much game over for these last two?
     
  8. jsciv69

    jsciv69 Warlord

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    After looking at portraits of Tamar of Georgia, she is a probability for b5.
    As for c5 I see a possible Viking Queen(notice possible female breasts upfront)?, or Sombrero signifying long overlooked Mexico maybe
     
  9. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Haven't seen anything in the last three days which I will say has moved anything beyond (wild) speculation.
     
  10. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    Netherlands did have a big empire though, so bad example. And Prussia formed the building blocks for the German empire, which also was a major power. But no, I would not rate the rest of those among the most powerful nations in history. I never said land area is the only thing that makes a nation powerful though.
     
  11. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    Again, never disagreed with this. By France alone, I meant a France lacking an empire. Without an empire, how ever would France have rivaled the power of nations like Britain and Spain at different points in its history.
     
  12. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    And I don't propose they do exclude France from the game. To do so would be ludicrous. All I was trying to say was that the French empire was what made it a global player, and that without its empire, it would never have had the prominence on the world stage to make it a shoe-in for every iteration of the Civilisation series. For comparison, Ukraine is similar enough in size to France, and has a long history, but due to it never having been a global power, it is yet to make it into a Civ game.
     
  13. dnoisette

    dnoisette Warlord

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    France was one of the biggest political players during the Renaissance and that was before the French colonial empire...
     
  14. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    I never think that everyone will think the same as me. I think you are claiming to know a lot more about me than you do, and would suggest that making personal attacks is not helpful to debate. I do not think importance can be measured mathematically either (maths has never been my strongpoint anyway:)). However, I do think that we can observe some nations and people being more important/powerful than others. For example, you would struggle to persuade me that the Sultan of Brunei was more powerful than Vladimir Putin.

    Well, you would be wrong if you said that historians never talk about which leaders were and were not successful, because they do. But no, critique of different cultures wouldn't really make sense. I was not critiquing French culture, just pointing out that the French empire was the source of its place for much of recent history as being among the nations at the forefront of global politics. Anyway, I am talking about power in terms of a number of factors. I could go into this, but I'm fairly sure you don't need me to explain why France with a massive empire is more powerful than France with no empire. To clear up one thing, by importance, I am referring to power. I realise that the two words do not make the same thing, but have been consistently managing to forget that throughout the things I have been writing.

    P.S., if you send me another message making claims about what you know me to think or whatever, I will add you to my ignore list, because I don't really need to be judged like that. I make no claim to know anything about you from the things you are writing here.

    Moderator Action: Thankfully this thread is too popular for this trivial debate to have highjacked the thread, but you both should know that arguing about arguing is entirely unwelcome in the game forums, so drop this line of discussion or take it off-line to PMs. Also, you should be aware that threatening to put someone on your ignore list (or telling someone that you have already done so) is regarded as trolling, so no more of that either.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  15. Big J Money

    Big J Money Emperor

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    People are suggesting Tamar of Georgia as a serious candidate while others debate France's inclusion...?

    I get that G is for Georgia, but I'm curious; why would Georgia warrant an inclusion?
     
  16. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    A great power in Europe, yes, but not a global powerhouse at this point. If we were to include every great power in history in Civ 6, the game would have probably hundreds of civs.

    edit: by not being a global power, I mean that it had limited ability to exert its power overseas and on other continents
     
  17. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    As I said, I am not debating France's inclusion, just the reasons for its inclusion.
     
  18. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Today civ6 facebook fanpage linked to some civ5 challenge game with Incas, and link was titled "are you ready for Incan Science victory in civ5?" I read it as civ6, got heart attack and almost posted here :L
     
  19. dnoisette

    dnoisette Warlord

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    Which nation would you say was a global powerhouse during the Renaissance then? To my mind: none, since the very concept of "global powerhouse" wasn't even up yet.

    I really don't understand where you're coming from with this argument. If I were to follow in your line of thought then Sumer, Babylon, Egypt and the like should not be in the game, nor any other civilization that experienced its golden age prior to the earliest concept of globalization. That makes no sense. :confused:
     
  20. Gangrin

    Gangrin Warlord

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    Why are you so obsessed with "global powerhouse" thing? It's obviously not the reason for inclusion of a civ. Otherwise, civ list would look like this:
    1 - USA
    2 - Britain
    3 - France
    4 - Spain
    5 - Portugal
    6 - Netherlands

    No Egypt, no Rome, no China, no India. But we do have them. Why do you think?
     

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