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All leader portraits

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by nunor, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    What you say on the first line is not true. Louis XIV had a large empire; not the largest, true, nor the largest France would ever have, but a large empire nonetheless, with significant amounts of territory in west Africa, north and South America, and India. In the time you speak of, France had none of this.
     
  2. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    I'm just skimming this thread, but is the argument that people like Washington and Elizabeth and Isabella (and by some people's opinions maybe even people like Caesar) shouldn't be civ leaders because their civ is only worthy of being in the game because of its later achievements?
     
  3. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    I was never arguing for not including civilizations really, but arguing for choosing leaders which reflected the greatest achievements of their respective nations. And, for France, a ruler at a time when the nation was a global powerhouse seems most fitting. Anyway, France without an empire, I would say, would not be as significant as Egypt, Babylon and Sumer; those existed far earlier and were very advanced for their time. I would choose to include civs like them for different reasons.

    Also, it is worth noting that apparently the Persian Achaemenid empire is reckoned by some to have ruled over half of the world's population at one point. I would definitely therefore include that as being of equivalent power to a modern player on the world stage, even if its influence only existed in one region of the world.
     
  4. Big J Money

    Big J Money Emperor

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    I don't care to get into these, or most of the arguments in this thread. They're all pointless and pretty easily dismantled simply by looking at the many criteria Firaxis has used over the years over whether a civ is included or not.
     
  5. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    That is basically my argument, yes. I understand that many disagree with it, however, and that is not a problem. I can also understand many of the reasons given for why others disagree with it. You can have your point of view, and I can have mine, and others needn't get frustrated over my opinions.

    edit: also, a problem is that many don't seem to understand that is the point I am making; they think I want their favorite civs removed from the game
     
  6. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    I'm not saying what Firaxis will do, or what it should do, just what I would rather it did. Just sharing my opinions, and not demanding anything of anyone. This is a discussion forum after all (though admittedly I have brought us wildly off topic:blush:).
     
  7. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    Well, China is very much a Global powerhouse today. Also, Russia fits the bill. But no, I do not think that only civs important on the global stage should be included. The Roman Empire, most Chinese dynasties, the Mauryan empire, the Mongols, the Persians, etc. , in their time were all arguably more powerful than Portugal or the Nehterlands, and possibly Britain, France and Spain too.
     
  8. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    Okay. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I'd imagine that is a minority opinion. No harm in having a minority opinion as long as you don't make any demands on the developer decisions. (Not saying you're doing this, but I've seen other posts saying that the developers are doing a bad job because they made decisions that the poster doesn't like.)

    The discussion should probably shift to the France leader thread though.
     
  9. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    I am not demanding change, no. But even if I did, it wouldn't matter; it's not like the voice of one matters to the developers, let alone the fact that they likely haven't read any of this stuff I've wrote anyway (Or at least I hope they haven't :D).
     
  10. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    I'm not going to argue that Georgia was one of the key players in world history, but as with France it was a major cultural and religious player in its region. As I think I've mentioned before, as a nation I'd prefer Armenia represent the Caucasus, as its historical significance is ancient and it has the distinction of being the first Christian nation in history (modifying and reusing Byzantium's UA from Civ5 would be perfect for Armenia), but Tamar herself is exactly the sort of leader who would be perfect for Civ6.
     
  11. j51

    j51 Blue Star Cadet

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    No more Musketeers, please Firaxis. I'm so bored of them.
     
  12. jsciv69

    jsciv69 Warlord

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    It's been indicated there are 18 civs for Civ VI. There's more than 18 on that board. My guess is that some of these are slated for expansion packs. There may be room for 1-2 first time civs on the base game. Georgia would certainly qualify for that.
     
  13. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    Oh, I like to add that I don't feel that way about Julius Caesar; the Roman Empire may have expanded beyond his reign for centuries more, but there is no doubt in my mind that he is the best leader choice for Rome; he is the most iconic Roman leader, one of its greatest military geniuses, and he held unprecedented power over the Romans:king:; what the Roman Empire achieved since would not have been possible were it not for him.

    I'd like to point out to people as well that the choice of Trajan instead has to have something to do with him ruling Rome at its territorial peak.
     
  14. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    I agree with this; Tamar is probably a better leader choice than any leader of Armenia, but I feel that Armenia otherwise makes more sense.
     
  15. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    "Power" is not the only thing that defines civilization.

    Catherine pioneered (and then abandoned) a secular policy unseen in Christian Europe at the time. This policy (implemented through her successor) directly affected some of the most important European conflicts in history: the 30 Years War.

    By any criteria that judges leaders, she is a fine leader.

    Now, if you want to argue that *those* accomplishments do not represent the accomplishments of France, then we'll have to agree to disagree. France is important not for its brief Napoleonic empire (in fact, Napoleon being important enough on his own for a whole Era to be named after him suggests he doesn't represent France well either, but anyway), but for its cultural, philosophical, and political achievements.

    The way France intervened in the 30 Years War and the French-Ottoman alliance both heavily impacted European, and thus world, history. These types of conflicts, along with the strong centralized state of France, ARE France's political contribution to history. Not "Empire".

    Catherine is a strong example of both the secular government that allowed the 30yrs war and Ottoman alliance to occur, and also of forming a strong centralized state (since she spent most of her time trying to keep the nation united under her weak sons). She is a fine representative for France, assuming her gameplay abilities and character represent France.


    And please stop double and triple posting, its just making the pages more spread out. You can hit multi on each of those posts and format it into one reply when you hit reply, if you didn't already know.
     
  16. Tsuchinoko

    Tsuchinoko Warlord

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    I just thought of something that might possibly be relevant (but probably isn't) while making a post in another thread:

    It seems as though Firaxis are using the same colour schemes for Civs as they did in Civ V, except for Egypt which for some reason they have reversed (it's now Purple/Gold, like Rome's Civ V colours). Quite why they did this, I don't know. Why might it be relevant? Because Rome would now need a new colour scheme, and I can't see them using Egypt's Yellow/Purple. If I had to guess they would probably use Red/Gold, as those were the colours used on Roman Vexillums (military standards/banners). Who used Red/Gold in Civ V? Persia.

    This makes me wonder whether perhaps that colour scheme was no longer being used in VI, allowing Rome to claim it. If those colours weren't being used then perhaps Persia is not in the base game, meaning C5 cannot be a Persian leader.

    Now - I'm not suggesting that this is a sound theory (because it really, really isn't) but seeing as we have so little to go on at the moment I just thought I'd suggest it. Also, I'm aware that it relies on several major assumptions. Firstly that Rome will have a Red/Gold colour scheme this time round (we can't be sure of that until they get properly revealed). Also it assumes that Firaxis follows any kind of particular, consistant logic behind their civilization colour choices at all, which they might not (though I would guess they'd try to avoid giving civs similar colour schemes where possible). I can't really explain why Egypt is Purple/Gold now either, unless there were too many civs using yellow as their main colour in the start lineup (Russia + one of the new civs perhaps?).

    Anyway, just a crazy idea that may be of interest. Or not. (I blame this all on a combination of extreme boredom and tiredness.)
     
  17. Xen

    Xen Magister

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    Its not like Trajan was some slouch- he did the things both Caesar and Augustus either didnt do, or couldnt do: not merely defeating, but crushing the Parthians, and leading a hugely successful campaign across the Danube annexing Dacia.

    He didnt inherit the empire at its territorial height, he made it that way.

    Its also nice to see a leader for Rome who balances militart power for administrative talent, without the baggae of the eternal lust for more power that Julius had. Im hoping Trajan will be a very different persona from Julius on the map.
     
  18. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Great post. Dating the video would be important.
     
  19. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Tigranes II the Great could be pretty interesting, but probably not as interesting as Tamar.
     
  20. evanaurora

    evanaurora Warlord

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    Rome was red in 3, if I recall correctly! (I haven't played in years, and was about twelve years old, so I could be wrong, lol.) Good point about Persia, probably points to further confirmation of C5 being something SE Asian/Mongolia.
     

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