All Leaders Challenge Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh

[RockTheCazbah87]

Yeah! ALC 19 begins!

But settle in place Sis. Seems the best option.

 

[Finedrengen]

Move 1N. This should reveal more terrain than 1E

Playing hemispheres with more than 2 continents is dangerous.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Another possibility is 1 NW onto the dye tile where the Warrior is now standing. That strikes me as rather dubious, though--I weaken a high commerce tile for coastal access with no seafood in sight.

If you were planning a researchy/commerce game, it would have some merit - after all, settling on a riverside dye gives you a 2F/1P/2C city tile, which is a nice improvement in the early going - and of course a coastal settlement gives you a harbor for a later commerce boost. It also gives you more room along the river to place a second city.

One north is an interesting idea. I think it loses: two grassland hills fall out of the fat cross, and of course you are sitting on another hill. So you pick up another forest, and a hammer per turn [meaning the worker comes out a touch quicker]...

Also note that the plains hill is on the corner of a river. That's important, because copper and iron won't appear on the side of a river, but can show up on a corner. I'd be startled if there were actually a goody hiding that close to the dyes, but it on more worry.

Given that your game plan is centering on Vultures and Zigs, intermediate production is probably the compelling argument. So settle in place unless you discover... what? I would probably move the warrior NE, and unless gems, or maybe ivory, appear in the north I would drop the luggage where you are standing.

 

[rupertmonkey]

Why 1E for the Warrior? Won't 1N reveal more tiles, including the tile 1E of the northernmost dye? IIRC, moving onto the eastern hill won't reveal the tile 2E of there, because the Warrior's view is "blocked" by the forest.

Yes, moving north will reveal more tiles. But I don't think you should move the settler (the hill 1N of it will give you a relatively useless coastal tile and will lose a turn), but should settle in place. So I think you should move the warrior east so that you get more information about your starting position. I sometimes (OK, often, because I suck) get in the trap of moving my warrior onto the hill with best visibility, and then the next to see more, and maybe more, and then, hey! a Goody Hut. Then I've ended up seeing a long way into, say, the north, but I know nothing about the south. Then I watch as a rival pops the goody hut four spaces south of my starting position, which makes all wandering feel silly.

You do not suck, so maybe you do this intuitively, but you should get a more complete picture of your immediate environs, rather than gaining visibility farther away.

To sum up: if I were me, I'd send the warrior North. If I were you, I'd send him East.

Also, did you have someone check for nearby copper? I hope so; I wanna see Vultures. I guess I should've mentioned that in the pregame thread.

 

[cabert]

I clearly would settle in place.
With the "slavery event" in BtS, I'm reluctant to use slavery, and a no food 4 hammers tile is a quite good alternate way to convert food to hammers.

What I don't know is why you think this is a good start. IMHO it sucks. I just dislike calendar resources in the initial fat cross, because the city won't be able to use those tiles correctly for 1000s of years .
However, a farmed dye on river is 3F2C, certainly better than 3F1C. For a financial leader, it's a gift. For Gilgamesh, it's just nice.

I would go worker first, teching towards AH (you have the 2 prereqs!), to open up nice city spots. Can be totally stupid if you don't have horses nearby or a bunch of cows and pigs and sheeps, but with your starting techs, it's the fastest way to get some decent defense.

 

[Calder]

This is one of those rare starts where a warrior or scout first move is not prioritised. If moving the warrior 1N onto hill reveals seafood, I'd still settle in place! This is a commerce rich start with a good balance of production and food. Cottaging those two riverside dyes should be a priority, and worker first while teching Pottery is going give your worker plenty of work. Mining should follow, and then on to Bronze Working for the Vulture.

 

[Saltiana]

you shouldn't play hemisphere with more than 2 continents except if you use a bigger map than normal. It won't feel like a continent map.

 

[oyzar]

you say that you are going to build plantation on the dyes which would be a huge waste as cottages are so much better it is not funny especially given that they are available so much earlier.

 

[KMadCandy]

you say that you are going to build plantation on the dyes which would be a huge waste as cottages are so much better it is not funny especially given that they are available so much earlier.

you can build cottages earlier than plantations, true. but the cottages aren't better for commerce, the towns are (probably villages too). it takes a long time to develop those (we're on epic speed). you're losing the commerce from a plantation during all those turns. having a spare luxury or two for trading can also be valuable. my tendency is to farm riverside dye and then swap to plantations after calendar. moreso now that calendar doesn't have that icky obsoleting stuff effect.

that's if i keep a calendar-centric capital. i'm often quick to use that "regenerate map" option .

 

[oyzar]

the cottages would be far past villages by the time to get to calendar unless the map gives a good reason to rush there though.

 

[KMadCandy]

actually, i just checked. a town in and of itself is exactly the same as a plantation, +4c. it's only after you add in printing press and free speech (UniSuff too if applicable) that the town is better.

 

[Chrispy]

Given that Priesthood should already be a priority for the UB, could there be an attempt for an Oracle run for Calendar to bring in the dye money earlier?

It's rough because you need Fishing, Sailing, AH, Writing, and Math as well as getting to Priesthood. And that's not considering the desire to go to BW for Vultures. It's not a tech I've ever considered trying for from Oracle, but I've never had a start quite like this one.

1N or in place is the other major question. The southern squares you would lose don't appear to be overwhelming (1 grassland hill, 1 grassland, 2 riverside plains, 1 plains forest) but if you move to the plains hill and lose the second grassland hill you won't have much production.

 

[Morgawr]

Settle in place. This is going to make a great commerce/production capital and I would prioritize the Pottery --> Writing --> Mathematics --> Calendar research path to get the dyes asap. Pottery for cottages, (don't cottage the dyes though, farm them) writing for cheap libraries. Together with cheap colosseums from Construction you already got 2 to grow your cities, which you will need since I assume you won't be founding any early religions.

 

[madscientist]

I say settle in place, you are protective and have enough to protect URUK. The extra hammer may be nice but then you have that plains river tile unproductive for a while. Better to place a mine on plains hill for the 4 hammers and 1 commerce. That said, you can get a worker out faster if you settle on the hill but will lose 1 turn from movement.

I suggest moving the warrior onto the dye not on the river as this gets him further from the capital and speeds up searching a bit.

I would tech worker first for the rice. Farm all the 2 river dyes until you get calender.

Techwise I would start with mining, then either AH or BW depending if there are animals in the URUKS BFC.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Since it is a hemisphere map I would prefer the capital to be next to water. So I would move the warrior towards the water, just to see whether there is any seafood available.

If there is then move and settle towards the seafood. If not then, tough call...option 1 where the warrior is now..option 2 in place

 

[madscientist]

Since it is a hemisphere map I would prefer the capital to be next to water. So I would move the warrior towards the water, just to see whether there is any seafood available.

If there is then move and settle towards the seafood. If not then, tough call...option 1 where the warrior is now..option 2 in place

Yes and no. It would be good on a costal tile for all the extra commerce from harbors and continental trade routes. However, you are committed to working numerous 2 food/2 commerce tiles rather than cottages that would also have 2 hammers post levees/US.

Also, an AI can initiate war and directly attack the capital from the sea in the first round.

 

[Shigga]

you say that you are going to build plantation on the dyes which would be a huge waste as cottages are so much better it is not funny especially given that they are available so much earlier.

OTOH the plantations near the river are safe money, they earn the max amount right from the start and can be rebuilt like a zillion times faster than a town.

 

[Scaphism]

I'd be pretty tempted to settle 1NW on the river/coast. You gain 4 coastal tiles without seafood and lose 2 river tiles, but a coastal capital with good production (you don't lose and visible hills) is pretty awesome.

You also get the instant happy when Calendar goes online. It takes a while to build plantations, 12 worker turns on Epic I think. Luckily they're not jungle dyes, those take forever to clear and build.

One additional downside: If you settle 1NW you wouldn't have any forests in the initial cross to work for 3 + . It would take a few rounds (3?) before the borders popped to work the forest to the north.

The extra health (river + coastal/harbor), extra commerce (harbor and more/better trade routes), and being able to build naval units in the capital is pretty tempting in my eyes.

 

[mystiqblackcat]

I vote for moving the warrior to the N on the hill and if nothing spectacular is visible, go ahead and settle in place.

First build? I am thinking a worker to start farming the rice and mining the hills.

 

[Indibil]

Warrior 1N. If he doesn't find Gems or Gold settle in place I'd say.