All Things Star Trek

[Synobun]

What are you thinking, exactly?

Spoiler Discovery S3 :

That throwing her suit back into the wormhole caused some tomfoolery? I can't possibly see a remotely compelling reason for the Burn to be in any way related to Burnham.

 

[warpus]

Spoiler :

That's really the only thing I can think of, when she sent her suit back through the wormhole. But like, what if it's a mirror universe version of her caused the burn? There's some possibilities. It's entirely possible they just named it the burn while giggling how we're going to talk about it for no reason.

 

[Arakhor]

Spoiler :

David Cronenberg's character mentioned that there had been no contact from the Mirror universe for 500 years. I guess he could have been lying, but that seems like a silly thing to lie about.

 

[warpus]

Spoiler :

I suspect that the MU drifting away from our universe is related to the burn somehow. OR the burn was a result of an attempt to bridge the universes together. Another possibility regarding the "Burn" - Burnham or her mother are blamed for it but they had nothing to do with it. Another thought, going back to an earlier idea - MU Burnham is supposed to be dead but the Trekipedia (or whatever that site is) says that she "allegedly" died. So maybe evil Michael Burnham (with a beard, hopefully) is responsible. Or evil Burnham's mother? No idea what her MU counterpart has been up to.

I also wouldn't trust Cronenberg. I have a suspicion that the MU is involved with the 30th century Federation somehow. I'm not sure in what capacity. Maybe they fled the MU a while ago and are essentially refugees, but odn't want anyone to know. Or something more sinister. Maybe they have a bridge to the MU but are keeping it secret.

 

[Synobun]

God, I hope you're wrong.

 

[warpus]

Yeah, I hope they do something more interesting than anything I've been theorizing about. That melody doesn't fit into any of this yet, so hopefully they weave all this together in some sort of satisfying way. I'm just throwing out thoughts. Fun being engaged in a Trek show like this again though

Spoiler :

I suspect that the MU is involved in a bigger way than it appears since this show seems to love the MU

 

[The_J]

Could we have a new protagonist please? Or story?
Rant below:

Spoiler :

Oh boy, I don't know where to start complaining.
Maybe first that Michael should please start using her full voice, this... husky (?) tonality is annoying me as hell. It also indicates that a wave of pathos is to come... blerg.
I do not mind this Romulan/Vulcan mashup, but it totally adds nothing to the story. At least I see a possibility how it doesn't conflict with the rest of the universe. Tilly as #1 is maybe a bit dumb, but at least not blondie. Not sure if anyone else would fit tremendously well either.
The mother gets thrown in there for absolutely no good reason too. You'd think this is a story-defining, long-lasting point, but she's just here that Michael admits to herself her own feelings? Naaah, come on. This is also basically the core of the episode. Is this a soap opera now?
It also doesn't make too much sense that she stands in front of a committee for logic, and wins them (well, not exactly) over by talking about her feelings. I would have been way more logical if they hadn't given in at the end, since she already promised them to give everything what she'll find out. Pretty sure the Vulcan science commission can deal with that better than a single person on a random ship. This step is presented also as a self-less step, with no intend to gain anything, which made her at the end gain what she desired. Well...

Extremely dissatisfied with this episode.

 

[warpus]

I think it was probably the weakest episode this season, but I liked it nevertheless.

Some thoughts:

Spoiler :

There was zero violence (I think), which I like because the first 2 seasons were just too insane with the pacing. One thing I am really liking is the sane pacing. All these slower moving episodes feel like a contrast to the first 2 seasons, which from my pov is great.

I also didn't like her mother just showing up. How did the Romulans just take her in? She's in the same order that the ninja nun dude from Picard is.. Isn't that exclusively for Romulans? Seems super convenient that they happen to run into her and allow her to join .. Although since she's Spock's mom, that might have influenced some. maybe? Still feels like a stretch. Michael wasn't curious how her mom is there? I mean, she was surprised, but.. I don't remember anybody questioning how she was there. So yeah, the mom thing was questionable, I hope they flesh out her story more so it makes more sense.

I found the trial part of it very Trek-like in terms of.. well.. there just happening to be an ancient Vulcan tradition for this exact situation that the Vulcans just go along with because tradition. I knew she'd end up with the data via some twist, so I found the proceedings kind of predictable.. but a bit interesting because it's always nice when Trek shows you an alien culture that doesn't have everybody dressing the same, with the same haircuts. Alien Trek monocultures always bug me, so it's nice to see 3 distinct cultures within this new Romulcan society . I also liked Saru's interactions with the Romulcan president. I still remember Unification II from way back, so seeing the Romulcans was nice from that pov.

I am also not convinced by: "Oh yeah, we now trust you enough to give you the data". Although just one of the factions was in the way, so it's not like she had to convince everyone. Still a bit.. convenient.

Not sure what else to say about the episode. They are sort of setting up the season Enterprise should have had way back now.. All these potential allies they are meeting will probably all come together at some point and join in an alliance.. and then the Federation, or some new organization..

 

[Arakhor]

Spoiler about the quorum :

Bernd over at Ex Astris Scientia made the point that Michael didn't win over the quorum, but Gabrielle confronting her over her emotions did show the President that she was sincere.

I would prefer if Discovery was an ensemble show, rather than mostly the Michael Burnham show, but at least Tilly is getting to step forward some more.

 

[warpus]

She does get most of the attention for some reason, but Suru, Stamets, and Culber get a decent amount of attention too. I think that's partially as a result of having so many big names who only show up for a handful of episodes and aren't there as part of the crew. But yeah, I wish they would for instance flesh out the PTSD robo-girl a bit more. They sort of started to but I still don't really know who she is. And see, I can't even remember her name.

Spoiler :

Tilly being promoted is weird but it sounds like Saru wants a temporary yes (wo)man.. Plus I think he is using the opportunity to help her improve as an officer. It seems like nobody else on the crew wanted the job, unless they're all really good at faking being happy about this. I just wonder what sort of storyline they are setting up with this? It seems like it has to lead to some sort of crisis that Tilly has to deal with. But are they setting her up to succeed or fail? You'd think succeed, but, that's also boring and predictable. Cause then she can stay on in her new role and that's predictable. But if not, where are they going with this?

It also seems that the Burn -> related to Burnham? thought has a big dent in it now that Burnham Sr. is in the future. It's a long reach and always was, but I have this feeling that there's something to it. So bear with my ridiculous theories, that aren't really theories but more like thoughts. Burnham is obsessed with the Burn. She's almost crazy about it, willing to ask insubordination, and getting all emotional about it in the last episode. Did you look in her eyes? So the person who is going the most crazy in the whole universe about the Burn just happens to have a last name that starts with "Burn"? If I was the most obsessed person in the universe about tacos and my last name was Tacoburn, people would ask me. "Whoa, so are you named after tacos then? Did you change your last name?". And I'd have to say: "No, that's just a stupid coincidence, go away". That's what I'm saying, my brain notices that and says: "Yo dude, I found a pattern", so I'm willing to humour the connection. What if it's something stupid like, she is named after it because she figured out what caused it. And they explain it with some weird timetravel thing and it's either brilliant and well written or stupid like that lizard voyager episode.

Moving on, I like that this season is making me think more. The first 2 seasons just moved too fast and went all over the place for you to really grab anything for too long. Here I am sort of holding to the same plot elements, which are getting more fleshed out as we go. I also sort of figured out that I like longer mystery-like seasons. I really liked the first season of LOST and when I was a kid I read Mysterious Island like 10+ times. And I was really dissappointed with the way Voyager royally messed up this trope.

 

[Synobun]

Latest episode was a little too contrived for my tastes. It definitely lacked an organic element to its plot and progression.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I would prefer if Discovery was an ensemble show, rather than mostly the Michael Burnham show, but at least Tilly is getting to step forward some more.

TNG and DS9 turned into the Worf Show/Worf & Dax Show, which is why I really can't stand those characters. But at least neither of them had the unremitting plot armor Burnham has. She should have been drummed out of Starfleet before the end of the third episode in Season 1.

And here's an opinion that people might find shallow, but I don't care: I can't take any character seriously whose name is "Tilly." It's stupidly cutesy, as though they'd named her "Muffin." (same reason why I have a reaction to the name of the lead in Buffy the Vampire Slayer).

"Tilly" and "Buffy" are little-girl names. They are not names for grown-up women.

But yeah, I wish they would for instance flesh out the PTSD robo-girl a bit more. They sort of started to but I still don't really know who she is. And see, I can't even remember her name.

It's never a good sign when you can't remember a character's name.

Ask me to name the entire list of regular characters on Enterprise. I can't, and that's after actually watching at least half the series, some episodes multiple times.

Spoiler :

She's almost crazy about it, willing to ask insubordination, and getting all emotional about it in the last episode.

Are there any episodes where she is not like this?


Shift in subject here, to something I noticed a few days ago in the news section at TrekBBS.

Herb Solow was one of the people who had a huge influence and say on the development of TOS, and the Star Trek universe in general. Actually, without Solow, there would have been no Star Trek, because he's the executive who gave the go-ahead to Roddenberry.

Anyway, Solow died recently, and here is the writeup about him:

Herbert F. Solow, Desilu Exec Behind 'Star Trek' and 'Mission: Impossible,' Dies at 89

He also worked at MGM and shepherded other shows like 'Manni' and 'The Courtship of Eddie's Father' during his career.

Herbert F. Solow, who as head of production at Desilu Studios oversaw the development of such landmark TV dramas as Star Trek, Mission: Impossible and Mannix, has died. He was 89.

Solow died Thursday in his sleep of natural causes at an undisclosed location, a family spokesperson told The Hollywood Reporter.

Solow also served as an executive with MGM, where he shepherded Medical Center, Then Came Bronson and The Courtship of Eddie's Father, before producing the 1970 documentary Elvis: That's the Way It Is and co-creating the series The Man From Atlantis.

A native of New York City, Solow started his career in the mail room at William Morris, then worked for NBC in foreign sales, as program director for the network's films division and as head of daytime on the West Coast. He also had a stint overseeing daytime operations for CBS.

Solow was hired by Lucille Ball's Desilu as vp production in 1964. He signed Gene Roddenberry, who had pitched him the idea of Star Trek, to a development deal, then got NBC to pay $875,000 for the script for a two-hour movie after CBS had passed on the project.

"I changed Spock from a red-skinned, fairly sinister alien with a pointed tail into the intellectually superior, green-blooded Vulcan he is today," Solow said in a 2009 interview with the BBC.

"I named characters, developed Starfleet, talked with Gene about the need to infuse the series with a purpose. I created the idea of the captain's log to set up each episode, and a thousand other things. Gene had a great idea. He didn't have a salable idea until we developed the pilot."

Star Trek made it to the air on Sept. 8, 1966, and lasted three seasons and 79 episodes.

"On jury duty, a woman shows up in her Star Trek uniform. The judge says, 'What is this?' And she says, 'It symbolizes truth.' Every once in a while, I look around and I say, 'What have I done?' Because people come up with the weirdest things," he remarked in a 2008 interview for the TV Academy Foundation website The Interviews.

"But again, [Star Trek] has helped a lot of people. There's a balance to it. Many of the astronauts … are astronauts because of Star Trek. People have gone into science because of Star Trek. People have changed their lives and live a better life because of Star Trek."

Star Trek was the first project he commissioned; CBS' Mission: Impossible, which also premiered in September 1966, was the second.

He and his wife, Dr. Harrison Solow, wrote books including 1996's Inside Star Trek: The Real Story and 1997's The Star Trek Sketchbook. She also co-wrote 1994's Gene Roddenberry: The Last Conversation.

After Desilu was sold to the conglomerate Gulf+Western in 1967, it was combined with the operations of Paramount Television, where Solow became a vice president, but his stay there was short-lived.

Solow later worked for Hanna-Barbera and went out on his own to produce the features Brimstone & Treacle (1982), Get Crazy (1983) and Saving Grace (1986).

Source.

Solow was one of the execs involved with Star Trek who wrote a 'tell-all' book about the show, dishing some of the behind-the-scenes dirt from his point of view. I read it, and it does not speak kindly of certain people (such as David Gerrold, who has his own professional issues with Star Trek; some are justifiable, and others... ). By this point, it's impossible to tell who is telling the whole truth. I think it's likelier that everyone is telling a portion of it, and due to misunderstandings and hard feelings and bruised professional egos, there's a lot of information out there that could be interpreted in several ways. This is one of those situations where it would take a time machine and surveillance of the 'fly on the wall' kind to sort it all out.

 

[warpus]

Are there any episodes where she is not like this?

Sure, not all episodes revolve around her, and most of the time she isn't breaking rules.

 

[Synobun]

I don't think people would have these complaints about Michael if she were a captain. Lord knows Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Sisko, and Archer did their fair share of breaking rules and flouting the orders of a superior. It only stands out because Michael is clearly put in the role of subordinate.

 

[warpus]

Yeah I mean her character commits a mutiny in one of the first episodes and gets thrown in jail "for life". That sort of sets the tone for who she is

I figured she would somehow end up being captain when the other one died.. but thankfully they didn't go there

 

[Samson]

I really liked the last episode, it felt much more star trek than the rest. The thing about this episode that got me, which is really stupid considering the willing suspension of disbelief that I have do over star trek: The data Burnham needs is some of the telemetry, basically a load of time stamps. The data they do not want to give out is the specs of the FTL drive. Noone mentions this.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I don't think people would have these complaints about Michael if she were a captain. Lord knows Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Sisko, and Archer did their fair share of breaking rules and flouting the orders of a superior. It only stands out because Michael is clearly put in the role of subordinate.

Kirk eventually got his consequences. No matter which way you look at it, his "promotion" to the Admiralty was really a way of saying "we are going to get you off a starship so you can't screw up the Prime Directive anymore"... and they actually had to do it twice.

Ditto Janeway. Her "promotion" was no promotion. She and Kirk are cut from the same cloth, although she is too arrogant to admit it. But she actually did demote a crewman and give him a month in the brig (Tom Paris). Harry Kim's successes never made up for his screwups in Janeway's eyes, so if the series hadn't ended, even the forgotten Borg baby would have made Lieutenant before Kim did.

Sisko... never liked him. I get that he doesn't like Picard, and that's fine. Picard indirectly got Sisko's wife killed by the Borg. It's a purely emotional reaction that is understandable. I don't like Picard for numerous other reasons.

There's a rather long story on fanfiction.net that explores how Voyager would have happened if it had been Janeway's ship that was destroyed in "Caretaker", most of her crew dead, and she would have to serve as Chakotay's First Officer aboard the Val Jean.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Discovery, ep 112: Well, I didn't see that coming.

Spoiler :

Lorca being from the Mirror Universe, I mean. They telegraphed that Ash was Voq pretty well, and I'd read a while ago that Giorgiu was Terran Emperor. I guess with 2 big reveals, I wasn't expecting a third.

 

[Arakhor]

I liked the Mirror episodes on the whole. They were definitely some of the better parts of Series One.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I liked the Mirror episodes on the whole. They were definitely some of the better parts of Series One.

I agree. I don't really need to know what happens to Tyler-Voq and L'Rell, but I wouldn't mind seeing more of Georgiu. Unless I blinked and missed something in the final episode, it seems like they just left her to her own devices on Q'onos. I could easily see her becoming an Orion pirate queen or something.