Discussion in 'Arts & Entertainment' started by hobbsyoyo, Oct 22, 2013.
Same. Just started the series over again with the 2-part Caretaker episode yesterday.
TNG is justly a classic, but Voyager was always my favourite.
I never got into Voyager. I was turned off by them having done two pure treknobabble episodes in the first seven episodes.
You say this as if pure treknobabble episodes have some inherent flaw.
I have no problem with them if they are used as a skeleton plot for some good character pieces or interactions. There were many perfectly acceptable TNG episodes where the treknobabble plot was just something to hang character interactions off of. However, as far as I can remember, Voyager did none of that. It was just:
"Looks like we are stuck in a subspace inversion field and can not escape."
[Everyone mopes around a bit, some uninteresting dialogue between people we just met two episodes ago occurs that gives us no insight into their characters.]
"What if we invert the flow of neutrons around the warp core phase modulator? Brilliant idea!"
I think you remember incorrectly then.
I consider that to be the kind of slow character development that is kind of intrinsic to Star Trek.
There's an early episode of Voyager when Janeway is resisting making B'Elanna the Chief Engineer. Then one of those technobabble-heavy situations comes up, Janeway and B'Elanna go out in a shuttle and have to figure out which Voyager is the real one (there's one that's an echo of the real one). Janeway is so impressed by B'Elanna's knowledge (if not her manners) that she makes her Chief Engineer.
As for character development, some don't have any. Chakotay is the same boring waste of space in the finale that he is in the premiere. So is Tuvok. But other characters, notably Tom Paris and the Doctor, as well as Seven, have all grown well beyond what they were when first introduced.
Jeez there's been lots of action in this thread since I last looked haha.. debates went from Picard back to Discovery and then back to the original shows haha!!
I thought Discovery season 1 was okay but there were many things that annoyed me. Season 2 was a huge improvement for me however that was mainly due to the additional cast members playing Pike, Spock and Number One on the enterprise, there was still some silly stuff (lazy writing plot hole things as usual) that annoyed me though. Season 3 loses them so I fear it'll disappoint me again lol. My love of the Disco season 2 Enterprise content of course also leaves me super excited for Star Trek Strange New Worlds (aka the Star Trek Pike show fans demanded heh) as they've said it will be a more traditional episodic Star Trek adventure show on the Enterprise! So hopefully they can't screw that up too much... although there's some rumour (possibly BS) out there that it's also going to have a young bisexual Kirk running about in the show so read into that what you will lol!!
Back to good old Picard.. I've decided I'm not going to call it that anymore now. To me this show shall now be known as 'Patrick Stewart Goes To Space' (PSGTS for short) as there really isn't much Star Trek or Picard in it lol!!! I've been waiting for the 'Critical Drinker' to review PSGTS as I've become an fan of his after seeing his Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker reviews on those cluster****s. Sure enough he hates it and he talks about Picard himself being rather useless just I talked about in my episode reviews earlier in this thread. Yes I know hating on stuff is kind of his gimmick haha but he makes good points that match a lot of my previously posted thoughts.
This is Patrick Stewart Goes To Space!
And this is Star Trek Picard baby!!
Don't mince words, Bones; tell us what you REALLY think.
It's reassuring to know that I'm not the only one who thinks the new series are crap.
What CBS should have done was make a deal with the Star Trek Continues people. Their fan films are almost like watching the rest of Kirk's 5-year mission.
Just watched Enterprise's Regeneration episode tonight. I probably said it somewhere on here already, but I just love this episode. The acting, score, & plot are just superb. Definitely in my top five for the series.
"In a Mirror, Darkly" gets all of the praise as an episode of Enterprise worth watching, but I also love "Regeneration."
Yep, that two-parter is also a favorite of mine as well.
Same.. all time favourite Ent eps I love how they made that evil intro for it too haha
Absolutely! I gave ENT a lot of grief back in the day, but the 4th season had a lot of nice touches like that. BTW, a Star Trek mod for Doom 2 sounds awesome. I have the steam version of Doom 2, but my first FPS was ST Elite Force, so trying to play Doom or Wolf 3D are....rough going.
haha yeah if you started in the Elite Force era then yeah old mid 90s first person games might be a bit of a struggle lol! GZDoom (which I used for my mod) 'modernizes' good old Doom 1&2, Hexen, Heretic, Strife and many other Doom clones in many ways though and makes it feel more like a early 2000s game so maybe you wouldn't mind it.
Here's a video I made of the mod if you wish to see what it looks like without the hassle of installing it. You'll notice I 'borrowed' plenty of things from Elite Force haha!
I picked up CBS All Access and binged Star Trek Discovery over the weekend.
I found the first season to be pretty good sci-fi, but poor Star Trek. It's like the writers had a pretty decent scifi show idea, but couldn't get it made because the networks didn't think it would have the audience. So they grafted it on to Star Trek to get it made.
Conversely, I've found the second season to be worse sci-fi, but better Star Trek.
Thoughts about the show in no particular order, may add more later:
1) Yes, the "Klingon" redesign is stupid, and there was absolutely no reason not to set it post-TNG and make the "Klingons" completely new aliens. Would also mitigate the horrendous breach in visual continuity between ENT, DIS, and TOS.
2) Technobabble seems to have gotten stupider. I don't remember quite as many "We only have six minutes to completely rewrite the laws of physics" plots in TNG. There were also a lot of "Because Plot" character realizations/decisions, that flow from the showrunners trying to jam too much in to the episodes.
3) Oh God the Mirror Universe. I get the whole mirroring of characters/plot themes/concepts, but it felt less like "terrifying inversions of beloved characters" and more like everyone was hamming it up in a pulp adventure. They could have done some interesting things with it, the idea of Lorca being from the Mirror Universe and how he manipulates Starfleet to get back is interesting; but once he is back he is just a generic Space Nazi ham.
4) Stupid hidden character motivations/ red herrings. I liked Ash Tyler and thought the show could have done some interesting stuff with it. Star Trek's best characters seem to be the ones trying to "find their humanity", like Spock, Data, and to an extent Odo. Tyler could have been an interesting twist on that, where instead of being too logical, he was too emotional, traumatized by what he has done and experienced. Instead they made him a sleeper agent whose real personality is reawakened in a manner similar to the Cylons in Battlestar Galactica. Shame, because as I said I liked the character and actor.
4a) Similar with Lorca. The should seemed to be trying to go in a direction of showing Lorca as a damaged person who haunted by past trauma manipulates people and Federation ideals to suit his revenge; but then PSYCH he is a Mirror Universe villain. I read a review that considered the treatment of Lorca and Tyler as borderline insulting to real people with trauma/PTSD, where instead of actually struggling with their problems, they are actually just evil or a sleeper agent.
4b) Also, WTF was going on with Voq becoming Tyler? Was it just some vague plot to get onto Discovery and then have Klingon Chick awaken Tyler and have him steal the ship? Klingons had made it clear they viewed anything non-klingon as a corruption of their spirit, so why would they go along with Klingon chick just because she captured a non-Klingon ship?
5) I increasingly hate Section 31. Writers seem to use them whenever they want an "Evil Federation" but none of the writers really have the skill to pull off Section 31. In DS9 (and I think later TNG), Section 31 was presented as a big surprise, that the Federation even has black ops teams. Now, especially in Season 2, they seem to be presented as a sort of parallel secret government - that Starfleet is just some kids playing a game of fun and happiness while Section 31 is off being a Master of Worlds. Part of me blames this on writers wanting to be 'edgy', but also on Kurtzman and Orci being really into conspiracies. Their background with Fringe/Lost makes that a natural plot theme for them, and with Orci being a 9/11 Truther (which helped make their Wrath of Khan remake a mess), some of that seems to have bled over into Kurtzman.
6) I know Disco got some flack for the bright space lights, but I sort of liked it. It made space feel vibrant.
7) The Finale to Season 1 felt simultaneously rushed and drawn out. While I like that the writers didn't end the series in a massive space battle and at least tried to end on a diplomatic/hopeful note, it felt strange; sort of like Mass Effect 3's "Press a Button, Choose an Ending" ending. It was like I was in a video game with two quest markers: "Give bomb to the Emperor, or Give bomb to Klingon chick who did absolutely nothing."
8) I don't like how the show had Ash kill off Stamet's partner (Culper?). He was in too few episodes, but him and Stamets had a cute relationship that felt normal, not like Star Trek was screaming HEY WE GOT SOME GAYS, SORRY FOR THAT ONE EPISODE WHERE RIKER TEACHES THE PLANET OF THE LESBIAN SOFTBALL COACHES TO LOVE HETERO SEX (which is why David Gerrold wrote Blood and Fire after all).
9) The entire show feels too fast. TNG's plots, especially the better episodes, were basically a framework to hang character interactions off of. Even DS9, which was much more focused on big picture events, did that to an extent, seeing how characters change and respond to times of upheaval and war. Here, everything was too fast and several episodes were devoted to our characters being alone and acting out of ordinary (Mirror Universe).
10) The last two episodes of the first season felt like they had no special effects budget, that everything was blown earlier leaving nothing on the finale. The scale felt like a TNG episode - the Kronos village felt like a redress of an alien-village-of-the-week from Stargate (also, WTF are non-Klingons just chilling Kronos after all the talk by Klingons about how they are being polluted by xenos?) and the cave showdown with the bomb was small and darkly lit, like a TNG set to hide how small it was. Given the series had no problem going big, it felt very cheap.
EDIT 11) If they wanted to keep the Mirror Universe to fit in with their series tone of mirroring, they could have done something with Lorca (Mirror or Regular) wanting to bring the Mirror Terrans into the Regular Universe to fight the Klingons. That would have allowed some mirroring/counterpoints with the Prime Directive. The Federation is prohibited from interfering with other cultures, but should the Federation also be prohibited from interfering with its own culture?
EDIT 12) Building off of 11, this whole series 1 just felt rushed. Like CBS decided when they were going to launch All Access, wanted a flagship show, and told the writers to have a working script by X date so VFX work could start in time.
Sounds like I didn't miss anything by giving up on it.
BTW... "Blood and Fire" was made into a fan film. Have you seen it?
Yep, I've seen all of New Voyages and most of Continues. I liked the stories and actors in New Voyages more, but the acting in Continues was better along with a stronger emphasis on making the episodes feel like lost TOS episodes.
James Cawley used to post on TrekBBS sometimes. I've mostly stayed out of the fan film forum there since things got so heated up over the Axanar issue (aka how one man's greed killed the best of the fan films because he got caught with his hand in the crowd-funding cookie jar, not to mention intellectual property theft).
I enjoyed most of the New Voyages films - loved the ones that George Takei and Walter Koenig were in. It was an interesting choice to age Peter Kirk and have him serve on the Enterprise - that sparked a conversation over whether Starfleet would actually allow the blood relative of a captain to serve on the same ship with him.
But dammit, all I could think of for the longest time was that Peter needed a haircut. Seriously, whatever I thought of the story, that looked so sloppy and unprofessional.
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