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All Things Star Trek

Discussion in 'Arts & Entertainment' started by hobbsyoyo, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Mercatrix Citrorum Moderator

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    I started to watch an episode of Voyager last night and found the acting so bad that I couldn't sit through it. Granted, it was the first season and the actors really hadn't found their footing, but it was awful.

    I would much rather watch DS9 if I have to watch post TNG trek. At least DS9 has some compelling characters and it was more gritty and lifelike, IMO. Voyager was just a TNG spin off with the Pollyanna syndrome on steroids.

    Your mileage may vary, of course, but to each her own.
     
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  2. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Personally, I don't think that Voyager starts getting much good until Future's End, the two-parter in series three.
     
  3. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Deity

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  4. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    It's "Lower Decks". ;) Before I saw anything of the new show, I thought to myself, "How can they make me loathe recent Trek more than I already do?" Then, I saw this trailer. :cringe:

    I feel just the opposite, I much prefer the characters and stories in Voyager to that of DS9.
    That's pretty much a staple of pre-Discovery Trek, and really most shows before 2000 that relied on syndication deals and non-sequential storytelling. As far as ST, Enterprise successfully managed to straddle the serialized vs stand-alone storytelling imo, particularly in the 3rd and 4th seasons. As far as scifi goes though, Babylon 5 was really the trailblazer for serialized TV.
     
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  5. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I'll be honest, I enjoyed Lower Decks. The first episode was lighthearted fun, a nice change from the dour and Very Serious Story I get from Disco or Picard.
    Hopefully the episodes slow down a bit allowing for some nice character moments.

    I certainly liked it better than the Disco Season 1 Finale or first two episodes of Picard.
     
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  6. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    *bump*
    I watched the second episode of Lower Decks, and thoroughly enjoyed it. The show borrows its visual design from TNG (along with a bit from DS9/VOY), which is a nice change of pace from DIS or PIC redesigning everything for the sake of redesigning it. Some of the jokes borrow a bit too much from the Rick & Morty over the top style, but I found it much less annoying in the second episode. The episode also slowed down a bit which gave characters time to interact with each other instead of screaming and running and changing scenes. The episode was also packed with fun references to classic Star Trek.
     
  7. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    I wasn't going to watch it because of the art style, but I suppose I should give it a shot.
     
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  8. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    Damnit, it's actually good.
     
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  9. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    Ugh, watched the first episode of Lower Decks at my sister's over the weekend since they still have All Access and I was curious if it was going to be as bad as the trailer. I really didn't think Trek could sink any lower, but wow what a piece of garbage. Only two out ten of us stuck around to even finish watching it. Everyone else got up and went outside. It was decidedly unfunny and I couldn't help wondering the whole time what kind of audience they were trying to target. :thumbsdown:

    And, just because I'm in a complainy mood, we just finished up another re-watch of Enterprise and I just get so pissed off with how the last episode was handled. It was poorly scripted, too much focus on TNG characters, and the Ent characters themselves acting abnormally. Berman, Braga, and Kroeker should be ashamed. :mad:
     
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  10. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    I can't see what's so offensive about it. The art style and humour, sure, but the actual substance and aesthetic seems to be pretty parallel with the Trek we know (and love). It's certainly truer to the basics of Trek than Discovery and Picard.
     
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  11. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I found myself giggling at the intro, because of how brilliantly it pokes fun at the classic TNG and VOY intros:

    I also love the little touches, like how in the battle with the Borg the shield effect used on the Cerritos looks the same as the shield effect for the Enterprise E in First Contact.
    (Also, it, like, remembers ships have shields. The lack of shields is a major pet peeve I have with DS9 battles.)
    Unlike the Picard or Disco intros, I don't find myself wishing CBS All Access has a Skip Intro button.
     
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  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    I enjoyed the free pilot episode. I don't know if that's enough to buy CBS All Access though...

    I still haven't finished the pilot of Discovery or seen any Picard episodes. If I do get All Access it would be for Lower Decks as I really liked that pilot episode.
     
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  13. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    I'm thinking about trying CBS All Access later this year, mainly for The Good Fight and the remake of The Stand, but I'll definitely be checking out all the Star Trek stuff too. I've been wanting to watch The Good Fight all along, but one show just isn't enough to subscribe to yet another service. Discovery wasn't enough to get me aboard, either, but now with Picard, Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds they're beginning to assemble a catalogue. I'll probably give Strange Angel a shot, too, while I'm there. Strange New Worlds of course faces all of the landmines of being a prequel, so it'll be interesting to see how the writers take on that challenge, even if it turns out to be bad. I've liked Anson Mount and Rebecca Romijn in things, but I know they've dropped some stinkers, too.

    ---

    In related news, I was playing the "fan re-casting game" with a friend, and we turned our guns on Star Trek: The Next Generation. This is what I came up with.

    Spoiler :
    Capt. Jean-Luc Picard: Ralph Fiennes.
    57 yrs old atm, and you can find pix of him with little or no hair. Probably most famous for movies he did 15-20 years ago, so you'll have to look for more recent stuff to picture him in this role.

    Cmndr. Will Riker: Lee Pace.
    I know him from Halt & Catch Fire, and the character he played in that had a kind of laid-back masculinity that I think fits Riker well. He also played Ronan the Accuser in Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel, but those were poor roles, and he didn't get to do anything. He's 6'5" and 41 years old, which I think fits Riker. You can find pictures of him with a beard, and I think he looks the part.

    (Alternate Will Riker: John Krasinski.
    I think he's a little... hrm... dopey? That's much too harsh, but I can't put my finger on the quality that I think clashes with how I envision Riker. However, writers could make great use of his background in comedy, if they wanted to take the character in a new direction. Like Pace, he's tall and ~40 yrs old, and can grow a good beard, and I can imagine him in scenes opposite all of the other actors.)

    Geordi LaForge: David Oyelowo.
    He came to mind immediately, and I didn't bother to even cast around for anyone else. He's a little older than I imagine LaForge being, 44, but he's got kind of a baby-face, so I think he could play younger than he is. I also wouldn't care which accent he used. While Picard has to have a British accent, and Riker is definitely American, I don't even remember where LaForge was from, so it's not an important aspect of the character for me. If we're talking a series, it might be easier for the cast to just use their natural accents.

    Worf: Aldis Hodge or Jason Momoa.
    I'm torn here, and I think each guy would play a very different Worf. I see Hodge as a more stoic and intellectual Worf, owing to his performances in The Invisible Man and Leverage. Momoa is more, um, untamed? If you wanted a sexier Worf, then Momoa would have to be the choice, I would think. Both guys are tall and pretty jacked, so Worf's role as one of the crew's fighters would be easy for either of them. I think both of them also have a great voice for playing Worf, which is something Michael Dorn really embedded in the character, for me. Momoa is older, 41, while Hodge is only 33, but I don't think that would matter very much.

    Counselor Troi: Tala Ashe or Sarah Shahi.
    Also two different interpretations of Troi. Ashe, who plays Zari (or should I say, Zaris) in Legends of Tomorrow, would be a more aloof, cool Troi, but with the occasional knowing wink or sly grin, if you get me. If you've seen her two different versions of her character in Legends, you might see where I'm going. As with casting Momoa as Worf, going with Shahi over Ashe would almost inevitably mean a sexier Troi, but I love the energy that Shahi always brings to the screen. She never seems waify or demure, and I like the idea of a driven Troi. I think I would pair Shahi with Hodge, and Ashe with Momoa, and Lee Pace in either case. The one drawback I see with Shahi is that she's tiny, 5'3". All of the guys she'd be doing scenes with could trip over her. Still, her energy will help ameliorate that, and she did scenes with Nathan Fillion (6'2") in The Rookie and I don't remember thinking she looked ridiculous next to him. I was also considering Annette Mahendru from The Americans, Tatiana Maslany from Orphan Black, and Jurnee Smollet-Bell, but they're all too young (and young-looking) when I imagine scenes with Troi and Riker or Troi and Worf. Ashe is 36 and Shahi is 40.

    Commander Data: Tom Hiddleston.
    Too obvious? This is the one casting here that I didn't come up with myself. I really tried to come up with someone else, and I just couldn't.

    Tasha Yar: Mackenzie Davis.
    From Halt & Catch Fire and Terminator: Dark Fate. I like Davis' combination of looking like a model while also being a convincing [butt]-kicker, which I thought Denise Crosby brought to the role. I also considered Elizabeth Debicki, but I've never seen her not play a soft character, and Charlize Theron, but I have a hard time picturing her as a junior officer. If I wanted to gender-flip Commander Riker, Charlize Theron would be an obvious choice for that role.

    Doctor Crusher: Connie Nielsen.
    I'd really like to dive into the relationship between Jean-Luc and Beverly in my version. She's the only person on the ship who's his peer - I think she'd be the only person to ever call him "Jean-Luc", for example - so I'd want an actress able to look Fiennes in the eye, both literally and figuratively (which ruled out the first name that popped into my head, Jessica Chastain, who's only 41); Nielsen just turned 55 and is 5' 10". I was also thinking about Indira Varma and Taraji Henson.

    Q: I was thinking David Tenant, with Michael Sheen as a backup selection.
    Kind of type-casting, though? Maybe that's not a bad thing. I want an actor who can kind of chew the scenery without making me roll my eyes. I thought John De Lancie really struck a great balance, going right up to the top without going over it. I would want an actor who can do that. You also need someone who can be impish and meddlesome without appearing malevolent, because you need to maintain that "is he friend or foe?" thing; similarly, you want him to be charming but subtly off-putting, like you want to trust him but you just know you shouldn't. If you wanted to gender-flip a character, Q is the obvious choice. Heck, you could even have multiple actors and actresses play Q. There's no reason he/she/they needs to look the same all the time; you would just need some kind of visual or audible cue so the audience always knows it's him/her/them, like the flash of light when he/she/they appears out of nowhere.

    Guinan, Chief O'Brien, Wesley Crusher: I haven't gotten around to any of the supporting, but still important, characters. I'd probably want O'Brien to be an Irish actor and Wesley to be the same ethnicity as Dr. Crusher, but that wouldn't be critical.

     
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  14. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    The only one that seems like a given to me there is David Tennant/Michael Sheen for Q. That'd be a good pick.

    But of course it runs into the issue where I find Q mostly unbearable. :(

    I could see Cress Williams being an acceptable replacement for Ben Sisko. I'm struggling to think of passable similarities for the other characters, though.
     
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  15. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    Picard, Geordi and Data were the ones I couldn't think of multiple possibilities, right off. I thought of Oyelowo immediately, but I couldn't think of a Picard for a bit, and I never did come up with my own Data. A lot depends on what aspect of the character you want to emphasize, or what new aspect you want to introduce, or how you want the film or series overall to be (if you're a fan of DS9, you're familiar with that show's "self-reboot" that really changed the tone and feel of the series - I think Enterprise did something similar, though less successfully). I didn't really connect with J.J. Abrams' reboot of the original crew, in part because he conceptualized the whole thing as an action-adventure. To me, all of the Star Treks are more about the characters than the action, so Abrams and I had different goals right out of the gate, and I was never really with him. (Conversely, Ron Moore radically re-envisioned Battlestar Galactica, and I was fully on-board with that. I guess it just goes to show, there's no way to know in advance what an audience will respond to and what it won't.)

    I don't want actors for a remake who resemble their predecessors too closely. For example, I don't want Lee Pace to play Jonathan Frakes-playing-Will Riker. I'm not a person who feels like a remake or reboot somehow compromises the original, and I get a little frustrated if a reboot or remake is just like the original. Let Me In is a fine enough movie, but it's so close to Let the Right One In that I kind of felt like it was a lost opportunity (and it was only 2 years later, to boot - I mean, really, what was the point). I'm like that with music, too. If a cover of a song is too close to the original version, I kind of feel like "well, this is nice, but it doesn't really do anything." There are some properties where doing something different or adding something new is almost the norm, like Shakespeare and Batman. Other times, people freak out if the actor isn't the right height or has the wrong color hair. :lol:

    I don't know if Q would be a major part of a TNG reboot, if I were to oversee it. One could say that he shouldn't be in it at all, if he's not going to play a big part. After all, Q would never want to play a bit part, would he?

    Yeah, good call. I hadn't thought about DS9 at all, but I guess I'd want whoever plays Chief O'Brien to be really good, since he's a main character over there. Cress Williams would also be a good Will Riker, come to think of it.
     
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  16. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    FWIW, Sarah Shahi is a dead ringer for Marina Sirtis. But in a TNG reboot I'd want the Troi character completely re-worked to be less one-dimensional, and a much more substantively important character.
     
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  17. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    I agree. I think the writers had it in mind to make Troi more interesting in later seasons, when they gave her a proper uniform and then promoted her to Commander, but it was kind of too little, too late*. Obviously, this is all in the writing and not the casting, but I envision both Shahi and Ashe as a more substantive member of the crew than Sirtis' Troi was. In terms of the action, I would make Troi the Enterprise's alien contact specialist - I'm thinking of Jodie Foster in Contact and Amy Adams in Arrival and maybe a little bit of Amanda Tapping from Stargate SG-1. And in terms of the character drama, the Troi-Riker and Troi-Worf stories would get more attention than they did. I think Shahi has more intensity onscreen than Sirtis did, and I would leverage that.

    Hey, I just had a random thought: Elizabeth Debicki as K'ehleyr? I've never seen her look or act hard, she'd have to sell the casting director on that part, but I think she has the look.


    * I decided to look it up. Troi began wearing a standard Starfleet uniform in season 6, episode 135, when Capt. Jellico takes command of the Enterprise. Then she's promoted to Commander in season 7, episode 168. So, yeah.
     
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  18. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I personally wouldn't bother with DIS or PIC. DIS is far too rushed to get comfortable and enjoy. In DS9 or TNG you got to know the characters, so each episode you watch feels at times like getting together with friends. DIS simply doesn't have enough space to allow those characters to develop. Nevermind that as good as the actress is, Michael Burnham isn't a very interesting character. She increasingly feels like a cypher, without indication as to what makes her tick.

    Picard has better characters, although 75% of that is because we already know the captain. Nevertheless, it doesn't really feel like Star Trek; it feels like underwhelming fanfic where grandpa gets to save the galaxy from space-Brexit.
     
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  19. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Well, I could describe the plot of Picard in just five words, but "space-Brexit" is not the phrase I'd have used.

    Discovery has its issues, but I don't think that extending the series run to 15-20 episodes each series would help the pacing at all.
     
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  20. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    True, it wouldn't. Its, uh, "story," isn't built for it. The characters are really just vessels for plot twists, explosions, and drama.
     
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