All Things Star Wars

[Takhisis]

Well then, unsurprisingly, I disagree.

 

[Gori the Grey]

After you've watched the movie, and every single thing I've described turns out to be in it, you guys will come back to this thread complaining I hadn't put my theories in spoilers!

 

[Takhisis]

Unsurprisingly, i disagree. We'll be complaining that you didn't give us any hot tips for the Boonta Eve podrace.

 

[Gori the Grey]

The sad thing is I thought everyone was going to see the basics as clearly as I see them, especially that Ren n Rey are brother n sister and that the plot will fundamentally involve her bringing him over from the dark side. I was going to make a thread, based on that, in which we all communally constructed the plot for the entire movie, maybe even the entire script for the movie, in advance. Oh, it would have been glorious. Instead, I find that you clowns can't discern the most basic elements of Star Wars storytelling. Sad.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So you're still sticking by ‘Rey is Han and Leia's secret daughter’, then?

Why can't she be Luke's illegitimate lovechild? The guy finds out that his first crush is really his sister and goes celibate for his entire life over it? The force ain't with that!

 

[Takhisis]

Erm, thanks to George Lucas' most excellent prequels and canon comics™, we totally know that cheddar knights are supposed to be celibate.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The sad thing is I thought everyone was going to see the basics as clearly as I see them, especially that Ren n Rey are brother n sister and that the plot will fundamentally involve her bringing him over from the dark side. I was going to make a thread, based on that, in which we all communally constructed the plot for the entire movie, maybe even the entire script for the movie, in advance. Oh, it would have been glorious. Instead, I find that you clowns can't discern the most basic elements of Star Wars storytelling. Sad.

Again... "Ren" is a title, like "Darth", not a name... the Rey-Ren alliteration connection is lazy analysis.

 

[Takhisis]

the Rey-Ren alliteration connection is lazy analysis.

Given my newfound interest in Djerman and Dutsch, I have to point out, of course, that, unsurprisingly, I disagree. Some Djermans figured out who Darth Vader was because of how they spell their version of ‘father’ before ESB came out, even if ‘Vader’ was supposed to come from ‘invader’ if we can believe Farmer Luke.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Again... "Ren" is a title, like "Darth", not a name... the Rey-Ren alliteration connection is lazy analysis.

It's not (unsurprisingly, I agree with Tak): it's the way they're hiding the connection in plain sight. Giving one of them a name that starts with R and another a title that starts with R, so smarty-pants fans like you (who know that) will be blocked from drawing a connection until after the connection is announced, and then people will look back and say, "well, it's kind of like the whole Luke-Leia thing, I guess." See, you need to do two things with Star Wars surprises. You need to keep them a surprise, and then you need to make people think "why didn't I see that all along?"

Anyway, he'll go back to Ben and we'll learn that her actual name is Beatrice, so the R-R will just be a kind of bonus.

(That last one's just a joke. I need to be careful about this since JohannaK seems to think the whole thing is trolling.)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Erm, thanks to George Lucas' most excellent prequels and canon comics™, we totally know that cheddar knights are supposed to be celibate.

Supposed to be. How has that worked out, historically?

 

[tjs282]

It isn't like he got thrown down some chasm to his presumed death. We all saw him get sliced in half by a lightsaber, his severed torso fall completely from the cauterized hips,

Not saying you're wrong, but what's funny about this sentence is that it's an almost word-for-word exact description of what happened to Darth Maul in Ep 1.

And he got resurrected for the Clone Wars cartoon...

 

[JohannaK]

But you neglect to acknowledge that this happened as he fell, shocked but still alive, into a bottomless chasm. We all saw Snoke's dead face.

 

[Gori the Grey]

A face that--just coincidentally, I guess--looks as though it's been dead and sewn back together several times before.

 

[tjs282]

We all saw Snoke's dead face.

In Ep.VI we also all saw Palpatine thrown into a bottomless pit (which helpfully exploded — twice — a couple of seconds/minutes later), yet the authors of the (now non-canon) New Republic-era novels were quite happy to have clone(?)-Palpatine rise from the dead to take command of the Imperial remnants.

And in Ep.I, we saw Darth Maul get cut into 2 pieces and fall into a bottomless pit, from which it could reasonably be assumed that he was dead (or at least, that heee... would beee...!). Yet — since he was apparently too cool a character to be killed off just once — the Clone Wars scriptwriters found a way to bring him back.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Snoke was/is cooler than Maul, but assuming that Snoke really is dead, does also pretty much imply that he was less Force-powerful than Maul was (though even Maul himself didn't manage to assure his own self-promotion by killing his Master!).

I'm also not directly agreeing with Gori's hypothesis (no offence, guy!), but rather simply pointing out that such resurrectional retcons do (unfortunately) have a precedent in the (Nu)SW continuity.

And finally, regarding what we the viewers believe to be true (or not):

Let's also not forget that back in 1980, every viewer of Ep.V clearly heard Vader tell Luke "I am your father", but along with Luke, many viewers (apparently) refused to believe it. And despite George Lucre* spending the following couple of years assuring people that Vader really was telling the truth, yes he was, they continued to disbelieve it to the extent that he still felt that it was necessary to add another couple of lines (scenes?) to the script of Ep.6, to show Luke fact-checking Vader's claim, and Yoda confirming it.

So I guess we'll just have to wait for Ep.IX...

*Yes, I know I mis-spelled it.

 

[Gori the Grey]

(no offence, guy!)

None taken. I'm a patient man. I can wait for you all to scurry back to this thread and pay me homage once the film drops.

 

[Takhisis]

Supposed to be. How has that worked out, historically?

The one who screwed up was the one who didn't keep to celibacy…

pay me homage

Unsurprisingly, I disagree.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The one who screwed up was the one who didn't keep to celibacy…

I wasn't limiting to just Star Wars. In the more general case how would you say "supposed to be celibate" has fared against the basic urge to reproduce?

 

[Takhisis]

Oh well, in general that has often not worked (except in the case of palace eunuchs, obviously) but since this is the SW thread I was limiting the scope to the SW-verse.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Given my newfound interest in Djerman and Dutsch, I have to point out, of course, that, unsurprisingly, I disagree. Some Djermans figured out who Darth Vader was because of how they spell their version of ‘father’ before ESB came out, even if ‘Vader’ was supposed to come from ‘invader’ if we can believe Farmer Luke.

I wish I had my copy of Star Warped on-hand so I could quote the whole passage introducing Dark Father.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Oh well, in general that has often not worked (except in the case of palace eunuchs, obviously) but since this is the SW thread I was limiting the scope to the SW-verse.

See, that's the kind of thinking that brings realism into the films. They needed to just eunuch all those Jedi to start with, which would have solved all the problems as well as providing some realism.