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All things Star Wars

Discussion in 'Arts & Entertainment' started by EgonSpengler, Aug 15, 2014.

?

Sith or Jedi?

  1. Sith

    27 vote(s)
    42.2%
  2. Jedi

    37 vote(s)
    57.8%
  1. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    All right, Sommer, so your post has clarified some things, and I'll try to build on that.

    First, this
    is exactly what I think is going on. IX is going to wrap things up in the standard SW fashion: good family members have rescued their temporarily bad family members from the dark side. Therefore the very role of VIII is to throw Star Wars fans off that expectation so that it can come as a "surprise" in IX. (A disappointing "surprise," I get it, Sommer and JK.)

    You say I can't have it both ways re: VIII: that it's setting up this development, but that it's a mess as a movie. But my guess as to where the plot is going is separate from my experience of how Johnson managed story-telling in a filmic medium. My criticisms with VIII are mostly with how the co-plots not associated with Ren-Rey are handled in terms of film story telling. (And they come with a huge "granted," by the way, that the middle film is by far the toughest to pull off.) I don't know what Finn and Rose are doing traipsing around inside and outside of the casino and in its prison: what would constitute success or failure for them on their mission isn't clearly and steadily held in view. Their mission is urgent and they have to stay secret but they have time to gaze out from an observation deck on the abuse of those horse-racing critters. It's the management of pacing, mostly, a joltiness to everything. Poe makes what has to be the biggest decision of his life, to mutiny against his comrades when they're in desperate straights; we don't get to see him preparing for doing such a monumental thing; then right after he does: "'sall good," on all sides. I don't have to rehearse it, but it's the stuff in the director's control, not the stuff in the story-tellers' purview.

    I don't demand praise for my brilliance in discerning Ren-Rey, nor will I think it a brilliant story, if IX plays out as I'm predicting; it will just be a Star Warsish story. It wouldn't surprise me if fans outside of this site are anticipating the progression from VIII to IX in the way I am, and the way that will disappoint you if it comes to fruition. My experience is wholly within the context of this site where I've met noting but resistance to my sense of how the story is likely to develop. You clarify a bit with your opening comment about the "long odds" as you see them. And I've been aware that there are two levels to our discussion: what is likely to happen, and what we would like to see happen. But, yes, in your replies, you have seemed so committed to what you would like to see happen that I have taken it as opposition to my (again, as I thought, unobjectionable and totally non-brilliant) sense of what is likely to happen.

    Are fans elsewhere floating my Snoke/Plagueis theory? That's the one I'm especially proud of, since it would tie up the whole trilogy of trilogies.

    By the way, if I prove right about that, I think it will be the means by which the franchise reconciles fans like yourself to the Ren-Rey predictability. The "well I didn't see that whole Snoke thing coming" will be the surprise surprise, if I can put it that way, that will then warrant and salvage the disappointing "surprise."
     
  2. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    But they've already addressed it... it's just that your mental immune system has rightfully rejected and suppressed it.

    Oh no...:yuck: now it's in my mind *ulp* :vomit:
    That was never going to happen, not from me anyway.

    As I've said... the siblings route was always a possibility and to agree with your point... the most obvious route they could have possibly taken. No reason to mock you for pointing out the obvious.

    Plus I like you, and enjoy your theories. So mocking you for being incorrect would be counterproductive, since I'm always interested to hear what you think... Plus that's just rude.
    Also not gonna happen... for the aforementioned reasons.;)
     
  3. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    We've crossposted. Stuff in my long post above yours speaks to some of your post above.
     
  4. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Queen's

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  5. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    For me it not so much about it being "disappointing" as much as it is cliché and predictable. I fully expect that I will enjoy IX regardless of how things shake out. What I'm most excited about is the possibility that IX redeems VIII in the minds of fans like you who were hard on it. I'm hoping that IX makes you guys feel about VIII the way I already feel about it.
    Yes, but I haven't felt the need to watch any of their videos or read their articles/posts since I can just hear it from you :)
    Again, I don't need any reconciling. My Star Wars love is unconditional :D. I've even made peace with EP 1 as a really good children's movie, with Star Wars as a backdrop, (like if Home Alone took place on the Death Star), which instantly turns it from zero to hero.

    The Plagueis-Snoke thing already makes sense, given Palpatine's observation that Plagueis could stop death. But its gonna burn some precious screen time to introduce such a major character that so many people will have zero familiarity with. Plus then after you introduce this uber-Sith, invincible-greatest-dark-side-user-who-ever-lived... then what? Rey kills him? Ben kills him...again? Poe jumps in a X-wing and blows him up? Rose talks him to death? Introducing Plagueis is hardcore fanservice... I just don't know where they would go with it... A sequel-sequel when they fail to kill him?

    Something else that bugs me a little... Plagueis is known as a master manipulator of certain microscopic force organisms, whose name I won't say so I don't puke all over myself.:yuck: Won't introducing him into the story necessitate a ton of rehashing that topic? *ulp*, *heave*
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  6. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Disable emotion chip

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    Unless they make getting green tinted milk from an alien cow/elphant's udder a central plot point of IX I don't see that happening.
     
  7. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Ben really kills him, which can happen (in some way that the film establishes) only at the cost of his own life: i.e. he makes a heroic self-sacrifice that redeems him from having killed Han.

    I think even more casual fans will remember the "there was no father" moment from I and the Emporer's speech to Anakin about Plagueis from III and get back up to speed on this figure pretty quickly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  8. Takhisis

    Takhisis Poink

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    up yours!
    Well, you are a lawyer.
    Unsurprisingly, I disagree. Isn't he gold and red?
    Unsurprisingly, I agree. It'd be better if Rey was really just an orphan born to two random people instead of simply the child of destiny born to a family of children of destiny.
     
    JohannaK likes this.
  9. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Unsurprisingly, that's Iron Man. C3PO is brass and yellow.
     
  10. Takhisis

    Takhisis Poink

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    up yours!
    Unsurprisingly, I disagree, and TVTropes is here to rescue me.
     
    Thorvald of Lym likes this.
  11. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Queen's

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    New Timothy Zahn Thrawn novel announced - Treason

     
  12. Takhisis

    Takhisis Poink

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    up yours!
    I see you've woken up, Laurana. :p
     
  13. r16

    r16 not deity

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    not brother and sister , as there is still so much stuff about the revelations of VI . And ı also object with Anakin coming out of nowhere , let alone an immaculate conception . It's just marketing to the Jedi Council .

    easily correctable as there's so much to clean before anything Disney does becomes canon .
     
  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    That arm is like a car-bumper that's just been replaced and hasn't been painted yet :p
     
  15. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Queen's

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    Well, this past week's back & forth on this thread has been a real snoozefest...
     
  16. Takhisis

    Takhisis Poink

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    up yours!
    :huh: u.i.d.
    u.i.d. :p

    Oh, you mean Sommerswerd nitpicking and Gori acting his age? Then yes.
     
  17. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    3P0 was also once briefly, partly that gray-green of battle droids.
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis Poink

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    up yours!
    u.i.d.; it's ‘mostly’ rather than merely ‘partly’. :p

    inb4lawyer
     
  19. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    My predictions come with corollary predictions and my corollary prediction is that, when they're bringing back to mind for casual viewers who this guy is, they won't mention midichlorians, in order not to make serious fans wretch. They'll just say his first resurrection (or first resurrection of himself) caused the Force to generate, as a counterbalance, the Skywalker line.

    Another corollary prediction is that Plagueis will have a force-wither ability (from the name, plague). He can just wave his hand at you and you shrivel up and die. Can do it across space if he can sense where you are. Can do it to whole populations. Always gotta have a Death Star-level threat.

    Without something like that, who do you see being the Big Bad for IX, Sommer? Just Kylo himself? Too small-bore, I think.

    I already feel the way you do about VIII because I've replaced my experience of the film with your experience of the film.
     
  20. Takhisis

    Takhisis Poink

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    up yours!
    Why are you leaving General Hugs out?
     
    Thorvald of Lym likes this.

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