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All Things Star Wars

Discussion in 'Arts & Entertainment' started by EgonSpengler, Aug 15, 2014.

?

Sith or Jedi?

  1. Sith

    30 vote(s)
    42.3%
  2. Jedi

    41 vote(s)
    57.7%
  1. Synsensa

    Synsensa - Retired Moderator

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    The more annoying part is that they set up exactly that with the pre-sequel books. Rae Sloane and Gallius Rax were compelling characters. Yet somehow the premise we got with Rae Sloane and Brendol Hux warped into the absolute gong show presented in the movies.
     
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  2. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    It's such a shame we just got memberberries instead of that. Maybe someday there will be Star Wars movies that move the story forward instead of just resetting the story like a galactic Groundhog Day, but this is the era of massively commercialized nostalgia.
     
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  3. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

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    No matter the era it should be expected that a lot more effort is put into establishing a base for a franchise than is put into carrying it on. Making an iconic movie that people still talk about forty years later is freaky magic genie catching lightning in a bottle stuff, not something that is likely to happen again for the franchise even if they tried really hard. All that can really be expected of the current iterations is a reminder that a long time ago in a galaxy far far away there was this one really great movie.
     
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  4. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Star Wars is already a cultural institution, so I don't think they need to do too much to build a base. It's already there. Ideally they would have included the old cast to hand off the torch to the new cast while also moving the story in a new direction. It would have been pretty simple to do, and I don't think the fanbase would have complained that it didn't alternate between a direct copy of A New Hope, or whatever The Last Jedi was. The people who like the sequels probably don't care all that much about the plot anyway, while those of us who don't like them would have appreciated it.

    But it's all coulda-woulda-shoulda-didn't now.
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

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    Well, they are certainly more interested on cashing in on the base than building it up, since as you say Star Wars is already an institution so there doesn't seem to be much building needed. But they still need to issue these periodic reminders. No matter how iconic the original was it would be mostly forgotten otherwise.
     
  6. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I'm not sure that's true. Before Disney acquired the franchise, "Star Wars" was a beloved film trilogy, and everything past that was nerd stuff. The reason it's apparently uncontroversial to assert its status as a cultural institution is that Disney has spent the last five years repeating that message with greater or lesser degrees of subtlety.
     
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  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

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    Even an institution can be forgotten if there are no reminders.
     
  8. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I think the situation may be reversed, though. Star Wars continued as a beloved trilogy due to periodic exposure through home media release and re-release, through the prequel trilogy, through successful video game spin-offs, and so on. Its reach as a nostalgic staple far outlasts what would be expected from the duration of its original cinematic run. Awareness of Star Wars was never a question. The issue was whether a nostalgic staple is enough to launch a franchise on. I don't think that was something Disney were willing to bet on, not with the relatively deep mythology the audience is being asked to accept compared to, say, the Transformers franchise. They had to convince the public that more Star Wars was something they had wanted along.
     
  9. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Veteran of 1000 psycic wars

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    Thing is, that periodic exposure is linked to the marketing programs for the subsequent films. Not exclusively, but in large part. Every time there is a new film multiple cable networks can be relied on to pony up the license fee to run a "Star Wars marathon" of all the previous films. They do it occasionally on their own spontaneous need for programming, but that's not a really significant fraction of the continuing exposure. So really, even if a subsequent film is a bust it serves the purpose of providing that reminder and the first movie maintains its status as an icon.
     
  10. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    It's a bit like the Simpsons. We keep watching the first decade or so because it's a long-runner that allows us to detest the last 15-20 seasons.
     
  11. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Do you think that this a good replacement for the original? It actually feels tense, but has a few cringy spins and lightsaber twirls (and ugh, the force push). With a bit of editing, maybe...



    Also, I discovered an hour-long breakdown of the Mustafar duel. Calling all hyper-nerds:



    Star Wars is unique. Aside from being the only successful fusion of fantasy and sci-fi in human history (open to revising that opinion but have been disappointed so far), it mixed and matched elements from samurai, western and sci-fi films. Lawrence of Arabia also, if we count the Tusken raiders. No one even tries to create anything new these days.
     
  12. Synsensa

    Synsensa - Retired Moderator

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    I prefer the choreographed, flashy combat over the Samurai-esque fencing. Especially over the fencing of the OT, where it was geriatric men fighting with their canes.

    It feels more emotional. And more representative of the Force, really, since it doesn't really parse if Force users are just average swordsmen.
     
  13. JohannaK

    JohannaK Careless Whisperer

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    I mean 1 is infinitely greater than 0, so in that sense the new fight is infinitely better thsn the original, which was hardly a fight at all. Like Syn said, geriatrics waving glowstick canes at each other does not a fight make.

    That said, they go way overboard and it becomes cringy. They didnt need to go that far.
     
  14. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I vastly preferred the lightsaber fights in Empire and Return. The directors did a good job of establishing a narrative to the fights. Like in Empire it slowly becomes clear that although Luke is skilled, Vader is basically toying with him. This reinforces the fact Luke left his training too early. Star Wars is not a Hong Kong / Wuxia stunt film, the emotion behind the fight is more important than the stunt work. Heck, the fight in A New Hope has more emotion behind it than just about all the overblown CGI-bonanza jump-and-spin fights in the prequels.
     
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  15. Synsensa

    Synsensa - Retired Moderator

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    The premise of the Force doesn't really cater to ineffectual elderly fencing, emotion and all.
     
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  16. Imaus

    Imaus Prince

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    The premise of the force doesn't lend itself to being sick-ass cool in combat, either. Lucas was gunning for 'spiritual, detached, beyond materialism'. A force user wouldn't be the flashy guy, the force user would be the one who watches the flashy guy waste their energy and then strike them down in one hit. The Sith wouldn't be much flashy either, being on the sidelines for so long, and even at their height should they be flashy *with* the force, or rather, flashy in arts *other* than the force - there is a difference. A sith wouldn't mind being a good sword-fighter or someone who could pummel you to death with their fists, but the lightsaber may be something they might even embrace.

    Darth Vader had one because he was a fallen Jedi. Then somehow that translated to 'All Sith have Light-sabers, red ones'. Honestly I would just had made the lightsaber an impractical weapon - It's a glorified plasma cutter the Jedi lug around. The Sith wouldn't use it because it was a Jedi weapon and they needed something more practical.

    But alas, then comes Darth Maul and he had TWO sabers IN ONE and it all went from there. Gotta have a lightsaber fight in every movie. A hundred jedi just swinging it around in one movie, then six duels in the next....
     
  17. Thorvald of Lym

    Thorvald of Lym A Little Sketchy

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    Sometimes I try to imagine what they would've managed if the dowels hadn't kept breaking.
     
  18. JohannaK

    JohannaK Careless Whisperer

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    The fights in V and VI are definitely the best. Unlike IV, I, II, and III, they actually seem to be fighting! I used to think I was the best but then I watched it again and they arent even trying to hit each other. :cringe:
     
  19. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    V and VI had emotions behind the reasons for fight.

    Disney ones look kewl but it's basically a spotfest that's semi pointless due to crappy character development.
     
  20. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    I'm not really one for duels, but I like the ones where I don't know who will survive. That doesn't really apply to many Star Wars duels, since we know who will survive the prequels, we know Luke and Vader couldn't be killed off too quickly in the OT, and we know nobody was going to die too quickly in the sequel fights.

    Duels aside, I'm reading Shatterpoint by Matthew Stover again. It's an old favorite, and I'm picking up what I missed when I was younger. I love the setting of a brutal, old-fashioned guerrilla war in the jungle. I love the way the characters think so far. And I love how everything makes sense. Stover just seems to speak my language with his clear descriptions, and things don't normally just happen purely for plot convenience, but are caused.
     
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