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Alpha Quadrant Map

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Star Trek Mod' started by Nytran, Dec 7, 2010.

  1. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    First I want to thank deanej for his great work on this mod, specially his latest 4.0 version which is simply incredible :)

    Map Updated to version 2

    I realize most people play the galaxy scenario considering how much faster turns are now, however my laptop is old and even with the latest version late game gets to slow, not the most patient guy heh

    I've played pretty much every scenario and some alot of times so decided to go ahead and give TC01's WB a try and create a map more "zoomed in" of the federation core space and its surroundings.

    Map Info:
    Spoiler :
    - Type: Scenario
    - Size: Large
    - Civs: All Alpha and Beta Quadrant civs that exist on the mod and also the Borg, Hirogen and Dominion
    - Bajoran wormhole which connects to Dominion space (the only entry to it)
    - 2 Borg Transwarp Conduit connect to the Delta Quandrant's Borg Space (represented as wormholes since there is no texture for it)
    - Borg in state of war with everyone (diplo stats all changed to and from Borg Queen by -100)
    - Since the AI does not build starbases I made some of the resources in cultural range specially at late game
    - No turn limit and only Domination, Conquest or Diplomatic Victories


    Install Info:
    Spoiler :
    -Copy/paste the .rar file to your Mods folder and "Extract Here" (It will add the scenario to "Star Trek/PrivateMaps". It will ask to overwrite 1 file, it adds the scenario description, it will work without so your choice)


    Version 2 Changelog:
    Spoiler :
    - Borg starting colonies reduced to only 1
    - Borg starting tech reduced
    - Resources added around Cardassian space
    - Dominion diplomatic score towards the federation reduced to -100


    Give it a try and post your thoughts :)

    Edit: If you play as the Borg, you will realize its a whole new game compared to the galaxy map, the "transwarp conduits" allow for quick deployment anywhere on the map and with independent cities to raid in range. However the Borg are quite strong at the begining, I suggest only raiding secondary and independent colonies until the AI catches up in strenght and technology, will make the scenario alot more enjoyable ;)

    Edit2: Attached the map I used to get an idea of civ locations/nebulas and added a few screenshots of the map itself.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. LordRuin

    LordRuin Chieftain

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    Looks cool. But, What in the world is the "Garidian Republic", and "Elorg Bloc"? I've never heard of these in Star Trek. Are these Cannon, or...?
     
  3. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    No idea tbh, when I searched for a map of federation space and surrounding area (to use as a guideline) this seemed the most complete, I compared quite a few of em.
    There are some factions I have nvr heard of, possibly mentioned somewhere other then the series I would guess.

    However I only used civs that are on the current mod.
     
  4. Berenthor

    Berenthor Chieftain

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    If I remember correctly, both the "Garidian Republic" and the "Elorg Bloc" are two factions that are from (several) online pbem/forum/etc RPGs. Most of the maps are made by fans for use in their RPGs (their own additions to the universe).
    Back on topic: looks like a cool map, downloading :)
     
  5. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    I did get that map on a forum, so might be it.

    I actually didnt follow it regarding the Ferengi though, it seems more accurate between Cardassian and Breen space, there was an epi on TNG that mentioned a possible cardassian attack on a ferengi ship, and Picard was worried the cardassians had started an attack (taken interest) on that Ferengi sector, which leads me to believe Ferengi space is much closer to Cardassian, perhaps even on its border.
     
  6. deanej

    deanej Chieftain

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    That is the problem with Star Trek maps... every time someone makes one, something happens to make it obsolete!

    A couple questions:
    -Do the AIs actually not build starbases? They should be, and there are python overrides to make them do it. Did you check that they actually have enough gold to build them?
    -Did that crystalline entity I saw in a screenshot spawn on it's own or did you add it? If it spawned on it's own, that means the barb code works properly with regard to animals, which makes me very happy!
     
  7. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    The AI nvr built any starbases in any of the games I've played, if it is lack of gold then they should be able to save gold for 1 turn for example, which is usually enough. Or atleast they should do it at the end of the tech cloud.

    The crystalline entity is actually abit of an experiment, afaik it doesnt spawn automaticly, least I nvr saw it happen, so I added it right from the beggining with the cloak promotion which keeps it from attacking anyone and only defend. Reason for this is that if added right at the begining able to attack it will pretty much rape everyone before we build any defenses, I do wish it spawned at late game but from what I read it requires python code to create such an event?
    Edit: It would be interesting to see it spawn after the first person reaches TNG era, as an event.

    Edit2: Also regarding the Borg, seems that once the Federation headquarters are built, Civs manage to get peace with the Borg through voting, which is abit disapointing seeing the Borg affected by it, is there anyway to keep a civ out of its influence?
     
  8. deanej

    deanej Chieftain

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    The Crystalline Entity is set to start spawning in the DS9 era (a little later than in the show, but it is a very strong unit, and it fits better with the old python barb code from 3.25 and earlier. Could easily change to TNG, especially if the barbs aren't spawning that late anymore with the adjusted handicaps. The current barb code is controlled by XML tags.

    I'll post something in the Final Frontier Plus forum about the starbases.
     
  9. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    Most of the maps that I play are either Large or Standard with alot of civs, so by DS9 there is vry little barb spawning if any at all, I would guess it works on Huge maps though.
     
  10. deanej

    deanej Chieftain

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    I'll change it to start in TNG if there's a next patch (should be if the starbase issue is figured out). Do you see Gomtu at all? He's set to spawn in the Movies/TNG eras, so there's probably still barb activity then. He's also set as an animal, so if he spawns, the code works for the Crystalline Entity as well.
     
  11. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    I have seen Gomtu but thats the one I spawn right from the start, he usually dies quite early, I have not seen Gomtuu spawn at the eras you mentioned but he is fairly weak so might be killed without me even noticing, I'll use WB on my next game and check.
    I'll also check for the crystalline spawn at DS9, but usually its the Borg AI that reaches DS9 first and with the crystalline's strength it would have easly razed a colonie or 2, which is what Ive watched out for and havent seen it happening.

    Edit: Ill start a new game in abit and recheck.
     
  12. deanej

    deanej Chieftain

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    Wait, are you manually adding Gomtu at the start or do you see him right at the start? For the record, the eras listed refer to the game era rather than the player's era, so it's the average of all the players' eras (I think).
     
  13. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    I did add 1 right at the start but I have just ran a game up to Voyager and a 2nd Gomtu did spawn at the end of the movie era, begining of tng.

    Wont be able to check on the crystaline this game though, borgAI conquered half the map by DS9 :p So if its based on game age I'll have to run a new game with version 2 of my map, see if the Borg are better balanced now.

    Its actually intriguing, sometimes the Borg dont rush at all, other times they rush like theres no tomorrow heh

    Anyway version 2 going up in a min.
     
  14. deanej

    deanej Chieftain

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    Well, that means the code works. Crystalline's only problem is being set so late.

    Was the Borg stuff on the latest patch? If so, looks like the changes are really working for them. Might even want to increase the AI cost increase for techs. Is the unit capture tech rate fine?
     
  15. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    I have personally played the borg with the latest patch on this map twice now, and its pretty great, the tech cost for the AI should be higher yes, but not to much, not sure the AI would still be as agressive if it stays behind in tech to much.

    The capture rate is also good, the only issue I see is the captured units only retain theire original texture if theire unique units.

    Think it was mentioned on your sticky thread but will say it anyway, the % of gaining a tech when wining a combat seems abit to low.
    Not sure if its possible but couldnt you make it so that when the borg capture an enemy unit theres a high chance of assimilating tech?
     
  16. deanej

    deanej Chieftain

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    The tech chance is 1%, which seemed too low to me as well as soon as the patch went out. Both the AI research rate (currently 15%) and the tech chance are controlled by global defines, as I was certain I would need to change them. My instinct right now would probably be 25% AI tech cost increase, 5% chance to gain tech from combat won, though 33% AI tech cost increase, 10% chance to gain from combat won is also doable (though may be a bit much).
     
  17. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    When I play with the Borg on this map I continuosly raze colonies around the transwarp conduits, the AI will continue to colonize, so you can get through the tech cloud at a fair rate, though 5% chance from battles would be apreciated.

    Taking the Borg all the way to the end of the tech cloud requires alot of colony razing atm, my guess is this becomes even harder on huge or less crowded maps, though I suppose it depends on game speed, on normal speed it is likely that the borg will stay eras behind unless theres alot of colonies around its space to raze.

    Btw the AI doesnt seem vry interested in using wormholes unless it rlly rlly has to, so on this map it allows the Borg to attack at will without much fear of retaliation, which would not happen on regular maps, giving them abit of a boost in itself. I cannot understand why this is though, BorgAI seems to use the wormholes just fine, but no other civ does.

    The dominionAI for example does not bother to use the bajoran wormhole at all, I will probably try putting the dominion at war with the federation and cardassia right from the begining, see if that is incentive enough for the AI at late eras.
     
  18. LordRuin

    LordRuin Chieftain

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    I have a complete cannon map of the Alpha Quadrant if you want it.
     
  19. Nytran

    Nytran Chieftain

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    sure :)
     
  20. Marla McGivers

    Marla McGivers Chieftain

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    I'm a little concerned over the idea of letting the Borg gain tech by defeating enemy vessels. While I fully appreciate the realism of "assimilating" technology, as they do in the series, I find myself worried that they would be able to advance too rapidly compared to everyone else.

    If you think that to begin with they have vessels with a strength of 4 while everyone else doesn't have even Warp 5 ships you can see that for a long stretch their Cubes are going to be unstoppable. Granted this is how they should be, but consider that if everytime they win in combat (which will be 95%, if not higher, of the time) and that each victory brings a possibility of a tech (in addition to conquering systems) then they will quickly become irressistable. Since the techs gained are random and not tied to the civ's vessel they could easily advance through the "light" vessels until they have strengths of 16+ before most civs have Light I's!!

    The Borg ARE supposed to be superior with Transwarp conduits allowing them to reach all corners of the Galaxy in hours and vessels which could wipe out a fleet of 40 odd starships, but remember that the creators of Star Trek got round this problem by ensuring that they only appeared in a few episodes and when they did that they only ever attacked with ONE Cube!!! (So much for Guinan stating that "When they come, they're gonna come in force. They don't do anything piecemeal.")

    In fact the first time that we see multiple Cubes approaching the Federation, when 15 approach Voyager, in "Scorpion", they passby and ignore it!

    Naturally in Civ they don't just have one Cube!

    It's an extremely difficult balancing act between making them powerful and yet not letting them go bananas and wipe everyone out everytime they're in the game.

    Solution?

    I can't think of one. I usually play without them, unless I play as them! However, sometimes I simply use the Worldbuilder and create a system for them surrounded by Nebula so they cannot be reached (except by the advanced probe) nor they enter "normal space". Then when the civs are advanced I place a few Cubes at random in the Galaxy and see what happens...


    On the subject of Technology though, I find that even playing "Marathon" that I usually have all techs within 600-700 turns (Even earlier when playing the Borg) yet on normal Civ even by turn 1000 I still haven't got close to the end of the tech tree, usually being at beginnings of flight / tanks stage.

    Would adding more technology, in line with the numbers of techs in normal civ, be considered perhaps? Of course this would mean adding more buildings / military units...


    Marla x
     

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