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Alright, I suck at BNW...

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ANightDude, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. ANightDude

    ANightDude Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    United States
    Wonder if anyone else is feeling the way I do.

    Gold is not a problem to me. I've gotten the hang of it and by 1600 I can have over 100+ gold in, which can help set up a military quite well.

    However, when it comes to everything else, I'm getting my ass kicked.

    Does the AI pursue science much more aggressively? Often times I'm in 6th place in science and I've never been the top position. Other civs can destroy me with wonder spamming because they've researched technology I haven't even gotten close to.

    And tourism to me is a joke. The highest I've gotten in +20, but that hardly got me anywhere anyways.

    Also, having enough food to establish specialists (which seems to be a lot more important in this game) for some reason is nearly impossible. I'm almost always at +3 or +2 food, with no way to add specialists to my universities, workshops, etc. No matter what it seems to stay at that level which is why - I think - I fall behind so much now.

    I can rule in gold, military and faith, but everything else just seems so much more complex to me. A winning game on G&K is completely different than one on BNW.

    I normally play Prince, Large Map with 7 other civs on continents.

    Does anyone have any tips to make my game less suckish?
     
  2. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    14,896
    The trade routes might be partially behind this. Do know that expansion increases tech costs now.

    Build more farms and use more tradition social policies, and if you are winning the religious game, take Swords into Plowshares or Fertility Rites (or both).
     
  3. oddtail

    oddtail Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    181
    Also, since you are strongly ahead in gold, consider sacrificing a trade route or two and have them send food to the cities with specialists.This is a fairly effective method of supporting specialists, especially if you send food via sea routes.
     
  4. IAmOzymandias

    IAmOzymandias Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    United States
    I think my (our?) problem is that we don't understand some of the finer points about "why" this stuff is happening. War is easy, unit 1 beats the crap out of unit 2, unit 2 is dead, but when you're weighing trade routes, tourism, diplomacy, ideaology, and all the calculations that go in between. . . it gets really confusing.

    I hope that with time and experience the murky waters of BNW will become clearer but for now it seems like it's a crapshoot between my civ doing really really well or failing hard.
     
  5. Teholb

    Teholb Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    207
    I know many people will say I'm stupid/newb for doing this . . . but I almost always build roads along trade routes (almost never more than one main, long road), if doing so will give me access to more distant civs/cities. This probably isn't viable at immortal/Deity, but it works well enough on Emp to ensure massive trade and the ability to defend those routes from barbarous invasion. The trick is to get most of your routes following close to your trade road, 'lest barbarians pillage all your hard work. Another added bonus to this strategy, is the AI sends much more trade (and science!!) your way because many more of their cities will have trade access to your capital, and not just some weak outlying city that you happened to place close enough to them. I frequently get six+ AI initiated trade routes to my capital. Try it out, this might suit your playstyle better than the ultra-strategy that higher level players employ.

    The gold/science boni really add up when you've got long-distance trade going on. Your diplomatic trade relations will also afford you some shielding against any unwarranted aggression. I know people are saying aggression is down currently, but imo, it's just less predictable. I've been attacked many times, just not at every possible opportunity.
     
  6. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
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    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Has the AI adopted Rationalism in anybody's games?
     
  7. SheckyS

    SheckyS Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    102
    I totally know how you feel. But I think this is just a natural adjustment period. We have all built up habits and strategies over the years and many of the things we are used to doing just don't work any more.

    Figuring out why they don't work and coming up with new strategies that work in the new environment is part of the fun. But it can be frustrating, at first.

    My plan is to just keep playing, try new things, and the knowledge will come with experience. And reading the forums for strategy advice also helps. :)
     
  8. JtW

    JtW Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Poland
    I have been doing fine so far, but it is more difficult. I've stepped down from King to Prince, and I had been obsessively reading everything about BNW over the last months, so I at least had a firm grasp on what to do.

    It does play differently than GnK.

    Regarding science: do you go wide in your games? Every new city increases the cost of all technologies slightly (including puppets) so you have to put more effort into science, especially if you go wide or on a conquering spree.
     
  9. livsbrand

    livsbrand Warlord

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Sweden
    Tourism is really a late game mechanic, but if you wanna have some fun, prioritize like this:

    *Play as France, Brazil, or Assyria. For Assyria get the Writer's Guild real early. (Ethiopia, Mayans, Austria, Egypt and Korea will no doubt be awesome for this as well, but they're not BNW.)
    *Complete Tradition, Aesthetics, open Exploration for Louvre, that is your policy order
    *Beeline Writing for Great Library and pick Philosophy as free tech
    *Get NC up, possibly settling another city and buying the Library so as to not halt NC
    *Get up to four cities
    *Go for Drama and build the Parthenon
    *Focus down on religion and get Cathedrals upon founding and the Hermitage boosting belief when enhancing
    *Grow your cities
    *Get guilds up and staff them
    *Beeline Acoustics for Chapel, then Printing Press for Pisa and Globe, then Architecture for Uffizi and Hermitage. An Engineer can certainly help here.
    *Use Oxford to open Archaeology
    *Spam Archaeologsists
    *Don't laugh at Tourism

    The point is if you want to feel any mid-game effects at all, you have to prioritize everything related to tourism. If you don't, diplomatic victory will probably come quicker.
     
  10. Mesix

    Mesix The Allfather

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
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    Location:
    Asgard
    Yes, China built the Porcelain Tower in my last game.
     
  11. Ryoga

    Ryoga King

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    993
    I can give you two advices related to BNW

    1) Once you have four trade routes you should dedicate one to send food to your capital (always) and another one should always be busy to help the cities that are slow at developing. Alternate between food and hammers until they get in shape then move on the next one. Undeveloped cities now hurt you more then they used in the past. You get a penalty in science for number of cities. To compensate that they need to be more populated and they need more science building. Keep that in mind.
    When you have more trade routes then it depends on the situation. If you need more gold send them to get more gold, but if you are slowly developing consider using more of them to send hammers and food. Also you should try to get a good coastal city, because naval routes net you a LOT more gold than the land ones. Late game all of your trade routes should be naval except the few that you need to support your landlocked cities.

    2) Get the writer's guild as soon as you can, do not postpone that. build it in your most populated city, possibly not the capital. The city should have around 10 pop, the more the better. Send food to that city if it isn't developed enough. The object you must reach is to have two specialists in the writer guild ALL the time. Writers will help you in getting the culture that you need to defend yourself against tourism, and you can get great work of writings slots relatively easy with amphitheaters. You should do this regardless of your victory plans, you need culture to defend yourself and to get policies.
    In your capital you should build the artist guild and the musician guild. You don't need to rush that, but eventually you should do so. You don't need to have specialists dedicated to both of them, alternate them depending on your needs and depending on your availability. Remember that your capital should always have a steady income of extra food so the more the game progresses the more you can assign specialists to various slots.
    Lastly the only culture building that you definitely need is the monument. Build the rest on a need basis. In other words if you notice that you don't have a writer slot, build an amphitheaters somewhere. If you notice that you don't have great musician slots, build an opera house and so on. Once you are in the late game, use your great writers to create culture rather than great works, they'll net you a lot more than they would for the remaining turns.
     
  12. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Internal trade routes would solve all your problems
     
  13. sarah_aus

    sarah_aus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
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    Location:
    Los Angeles
    thank you for the tip. that was very helpful with my game as Assyria today. I like to win via diplomacy and culture. These days im more of a lover than a fighter :)

    a funny side note: i just dug up and gave an artifact to the barbarians :lol:
     
  14. BluegrassGeek

    BluegrassGeek Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    140
    Location:
    Kentucky, USA
    BNW really does make it tough if you go wide too early. You lose science, and you lose happiness, plus your growth slows significantly.

    If you want to do anything other than warmonger, start out small. Don't drop your second city until you're comfortable that your economy, happiness and science can take the hit. Luxuries play a big part in that, as do caravans. And if you do warmonger, raze most of the cities you take (or sell them off to someone else). Until you hit Medieval+ eras, you're more likely to do harm than good by claiming enemy cities.

    When you get a religion, I think it's best to pick tenets that boost Happiness and Culture, especially if they take advantage of your luxuries. Faith really can keep your citizens happy & resistant to other civs tourism.

    Tourism is very dependent on happiness & great works. You won't see much until you hit the Renaissance & Industrial eras, where you start constructing more culture buildings & get access to Archaeology. But, if your citizens aren't happy when you get there, it's a real uphill climb. You absolutely cannot ignore culture in the beginning or you'll get hit hard by other civs tourism in late game. Plus, your culture helps resist the unrest that comes from having a different Ideology than other civs.

    Finally, do your damnedest to found the World Congress, and try to keep it. You can really support your own nation, and screw other civs, with the proposals in there. You'll have to play nice with some city-states (and maybe buy votes from the other civs) in order to keep control, or at least vote down stuff that would hurt you.
     

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