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Alternative Science Victory

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by ggalindo001, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. ggalindo001

    ggalindo001 Warlord

    Jan 4, 2002
    An idea for an "upgrade" to the Science Victory -- I know I am in fantasy land given some of the complexity -- but would like to put out there anyway.

    What always bothered me about the Science victory is that you buzz thru the tech tree, Apollo Project, then boom, you can build a spaceship capable of interplanetary colonization travel.

    I would like to see more "steps" in this process -- and perhaps an ability to either cooperate or create a "space race" that is more measured. My thoughts:

    1. Apollo Project -- must be done by your civilization only. Every civilization can build.

    2. International Space Station -- must be done either by your civilization, or you buy the rights to "use" the ISS of another civilization. Every civilization can build, but you can "skip" if you are allowed rights to use. Rights are revokable on expiration unless same ideology or religion.

    3. Unmanned Flight out of Solar System -- must be done by your civilization. Must have ISS (or rights to use). Every civilization can build.

    4. Manned Mars Landing -- Can be a cooperative effort with another civilization that has achieved #1 as long as one of you have rights to #2.

    5. Manned round trip flight to edge of Solar System -- Can be cooperative effort with another civilization that has achieved #1 as long as one of you have rights to #2.

    6. Starbase -- Can be a cooperative effort with another civilization as long as you have achieved #1, have rights to #2 and have done one of 3, 4 or 5.

    7. Manned trip to Alpha Centauri -- must be done by your civilization. Must have rights to #2 and have rights to #6.

    What 3, 4, and 5 would do is drive three items:

    a. Increase likelihood of success of building future space exploration items
    b. Increase speed of building future space exploration items
    c. Increase likelihood of cooperation

    So, you wouldn't have to do all of them, but if you do, it significantly increases ability to get #6 and #7 done successfully.

    From a cooperation standpoint, I would see where same ideology or same religion drives likelihood of cooperation.

    Five other thoughts:

    1. Launch windows -- you can only launch spaceships during certain windows in time, esp for #s 3-7.

    2. Actual flight duration -- ships are in space for quite some time and have to come back (except #7 where it just needs to land)

    3. Ship configuration drives difficulty -- player has to balance speed, endurance, and ability to get back. Interesting strategic decisions vs. build everything to the maximum.

    4. Aborted/crashed launches and return flights -- based in one part on #3, based in one part on spys, based in one part on random luck.

    5. Learnings increase resilience and decrease build times. Even learnings from events like #4.

    This -- coupled with other late game mechanics could make the science victory much more entertaining.
  2. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Conquistador

    May 27, 2016
    The main problems I see, besides probably excessive complexity, are:

    -Having to match (turn-wise) all victory types means you can't over-extend science victory requirements more than, say, cultural.
    -The late-game needs to be even longer to allow for all this activities.
    -Mandatory cooperation with other Civs to achieve a victory creates a big problem in case you have no suitable civs with the requited tech level, resources or friendly disposition in your game.

    I do like the idea of changing the "Build Spaceship Part" to a "Complete task 1 towards Space colonization". That could work without changing much else.

    Thanks for sharing!
  3. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

    Aug 5, 2012
    Rural Vermont
    Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions.
  4. Felis Renidens

    Felis Renidens Prince

    May 25, 2016
    The original Civ games had a nice part - you could have lunched an incomplete ship, as long as it had the basic part. Also flight time was determined by number of thrusts and total number of part. It was sometimes possible to scratch a victory even if another civ lunched before you if your ship was fast and light enough. Only problem was that a full ships was lots of uninteresting parts.

    But perhaps some modules or missions to increase speed or chance of success (plus the ability to start a second ship after lunch - so you could either take time and do it correctly or try a few fast ones in hopes that one of them will succeed).

    As for cooperation - maybe if they will re-implement the congress of nations in an expansion it may be a project that gives you boosts if you contributed (like in BNW). Otherwise build the national projects needed yourself, or just build a ship and lunch it blindly into space.
  5. Blkbird

    Blkbird King

    Oct 29, 2005
    Sounds like what you really want is an entirely different game - one that focuses on building spaceships. Well, there are quite a few of them our there.

    Many, if not most Civ players are mainly interested in the "alternative history" aspect of the game, and have very little interest in a "science fiction" aspect added to it. That's why Beyond Earth tanked.
  6. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Apr 3, 2004
    I do think one key idea is here

    Currently The Space race is 2 Step (2.1 I guess) [in terms of steps required for the next]

    1. Build Apollo
    2. Build each of the different parts (multiple steps that can happen in parallel.. so effectively it is research and build the last part)
    (0.1 is add them to your Capital)

    You could simplify it by gating them a bit more

    Your Suggestion is 5 Step
    1. Apollo
    2. Space station
    3. Mars/Solar system flights (1 necessary, multiple help)
    4. Starbase
    5. Space Ship

    I'd probably leave off the 'chance of crashing' and such that would be a problem... but you can still gain Eurekas/production bonuses for doing all the different Step 3s

    I would probably Split it between the Civic and the Tech Tree

    Tech-Rocketry, opens up ability to build "Launch District" (it or buildings on it required to build most 'space projects')

    Civic-International Projects, allows you to Cooperatively build a Space station (and buy the rights for one you didn't help build...minimum contribution required to 'earn' the rights.. including no war with primary owner)*** really like that idea
    Tech-Satellites, opens up Space Station, and Launch building that speeds Apollo program

    Civic-Space Race, opens up Apollo Program

    Civic-Space exploration, opens up exploration projects (Eureka: first to finish Apollo Program)
    (Projects require Space Station, and will boost further space activities)

    Civic-Interstellar colonization, opens "Star base" (a new project required for production of spaceship parts)
    Techs 1-X enable specific spaceship parts
    (possibly one Civic for a "Habitation/Control" module)

    No spaceship parts can be built until SOME Civ has researched the techs for ALL Space ship parts

    Launch District
    Space station
    build Star base: Research all Techs/Civics with parts
    Build Parts

    Apollo+other exploration act like Eurekas and production boosts
  7. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

    Sep 23, 2010
    It sounds like what you actually want to do is play Kerbal Space Program, which will let you do these things while driving the rocket.

    Of course, when you start out it's more like Kerbal Assassination Program. There's a learning curve.
  8. ThisNameIsTooLo

    ThisNameIsTooLo Emotion Lord

    Sep 14, 2012
    I think your idea is fundamentally good. In past games, the Space Race victory was always a several-step long process, but instead of depicting a gradual progression of successive projects culminating in the colonization of another world, it jumps straight from moon landing to Alpha Centauri landing, which is an insanely huge skip.

    As I understand it, you want to change the steps of the Space Race from "Apollo Project, Spaceship Part, Spaceship Part, Spaceship Part, Spaceship Part, Spaceship Part, Transport Parts, Launch" into a series of much more distinct Projects, milestones of space travel, with more gated prerequisites. And I am all for that.

    Personally, I'd rather that the Space Race lead up to the colonization and terraforming of Mars. That way, you not only have to focus on aeronautic and computing technologies to get to Mars, but also a branch of ecological technologies (culminating in Terraforming), to finally give some due importance to the oft-forgotten Ecology tech.

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