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(Alternatives to) Donald Trump

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Tahuti, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    So far, Donald Trump embodies literally everything that goes awry with this year's US elections. And sadly, morally speaking, he has already won.

    Because seriously, we all know what Trump's (not) good for, why would Hillary - a known pawn of the establishment - be any better? Or why would that be true for, Sanders, whose views on immigration which mirror Trump's?

    Donald Trump represents the decline of Western civilisation through blind stupidity and populism. Any alternatives?
     
  2. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    One, Clinton isn't so much a pawn of The Establishment (an awfully vague concept) as she is a part of it.

    Second, there's no reason to believe she'd be anywhere near as dangerous as the orange, unhinged, dangerously narcissistic, incredibly ignorant, and unbelievably dishonest megalomaniac. Trump would cause major diplomatic incidents every time he gets criticized by anyone in a foreign government; he'd likely cause the collapse of NATO and increased Russian aggression, he's keen on expanding libel and slander laws to suppress criticism of himself, he's enthsiastic about expanding torture, he has a dangerous lack of knowledge about virtually every conceivable topic, especially foreign policy and how the military works, and he would cause colossal damage to American power, prestige, and foreign relations, not to mention race relations. On top of all this, he promises to be the savior of a declining nation who will restore its power and pride and crush dissent if only the people would support him and let him be a "very, very strong leader." The fact that he has a dangerously deluded cult following only makes him more threatening.

    The only way to stop the rising tide of right-wing, nationalistic demagogues is to defeat them in elections, raise younger generations to reject their mad policies and beliefs, and wait for the nationalists to either die of old age or start a doomed uprising.
     
  3. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    Clinton 2: Judgment Day

    But no really, the Clinton alternative is here and half of America is fine with it. Hopefully the other half comes along with the rest of us over the next 8 years.
     
  4. west india man

    west india man Immortal

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    Much of America will vote for Clinton to get rid of Trump, but that doesn't mean people like Clinton

    That kind of thing never works, right-wing populists will keep appearing if you rely on elections and ''raising younger generations''. Destroying right-wing demagoguery involves physically forcing them out of politics, and kicking them off the streets
     
  5. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Warlord Super Moderator

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    There's a bigger question here. The current politicial situation on both sides of the Atlantic involves two or more parties of mostly interchangable neoliberal politicians who agree with each other on most fundamental issues (including trade and immigration) while differing only on details, and right-wing populist demagogues. Given that choice, many people are leaving the mainstream politicians and going to the demagogues, who do offer a credible promise of real change. Trump is an example of this in a rigidly two-party system, where the 'establishment' Republican party is being taken over by right-wing populists.

    How do we construct an alternative that addresses popular concerns while not doing any of the following five things?

    1. Serving as a platform for prejudice and xenophobia like the current right-wing populists.
    2. Falling into known left-wing failure modes like the Latin American leftists.
    3. Undermining the democratic process, like both #1 and #2.
    4. Crumbling under pressure and agreeing to implement the same unpopular things that the 'normal' politicians support, like Syriza.
    5. Perpetually getting only a few percent of the vote and never appealing to enough people to matter, like most parties and intra-party movements who pass the above four criteria.

    This seems like a really tall order. Whenever I see any credible possibility for an alternative I get excited about it; it's why, for instance, I backed Sanders. But that sort of thing is rare, and at present it seems much more likely that any 'real' change will come from right-wing populists. That's a huge problem and ultimately I have no real answer for it.
     
  6. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    So the only way to prevent the country degenerating into hatred and violence is hatred and violence? :confused:

    No, if it comes to a massive, violent, chaotic struggle then people like Trump have already won the most important battle.
     
  7. GoodEnoughForMe

    GoodEnoughForMe n.m.s.s.

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    When Trump loses, between him and Sanders I think it'll aptly display that there is an entrenched political insurgency in the US, but the truth of the matter is that it's not big enough to carry itself nationally as a legit force. The establishment is still the heavyweight. In that regard, alternatives to Trump are mostly the same-old same-old.
     
  8. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

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    US needs a much higher unempoyment rate and costs of living uptick for a proper streets of rage.
     
  9. bathsheba666

    bathsheba666 Fast 'n Bulbous

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    For reference:


    Link to video.
     
  10. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Alternatives to Donald Trump:

    Donald Duck
    A potato
    Maybe a taco
     
  11. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Among animated characters I put Trump closer to Mr Hankey than Donald Duck.

    Among foods he's easily outmatched by that first pancake that you use to settle the pan and then throw away. Since I usually don't flip that one it is an appropriate substitute for half baked Donny.
     
  12. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Dirt
    Lint
    A soiled sock
    A pen with its ink used up
     
  13. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Warlord Super Moderator

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    Exactly how soiled is the sock we're talking about? I mean a regular soiled sock is better than Trump, but the sock I used that time I ran out of toilet paper might actually be worse than Trump.
     
  14. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Even that sock could be washed. I'd have thrown it away, but the possibility of salvaging makes it superior to Trump.
     
  15. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    It's not. Buh-LIEVE me.

    (Kaine got the accentuation wrong in his speech at the DNC. He placed it on ME. It falls heavily on LIEVE.)

    Also, that item you're referencing, boots, is part sock.
     
  16. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Chieftain

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    What astounds me in terms of the current state of the republican party is that freaking Ted Cruz was their "top" alternative choice
     
  17. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Warlord Super Moderator

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    I did throw it away. Far, far away. It was so foul that the concept of washing it didn't even occur to me.

    I suppose there are advantages to being governed by a poopy sock for four years. It would be much less likely to start a nuclear war than even Clinton, let alone the orange guy. Wouldn't deport anyone either. Diplomatic incidents would be common, but the way it offended world leaders would at least be predictable.
     
  18. _random_

    _random_ Jewel Runner

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    I certainly don't completely agree with Sanders on immigration but that's an absurd notion. One of his most effective ads, I think, was touting his record on migrant labor:

    Link to video.
    Hardly a mirror image of Trump there.
     
  19. Lohrenswald

    Lohrenswald 老仁森林

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    Western civilisation is a piece of feces anyway

    If he can destroy it I'm game
     
  20. Skritcakes

    Skritcakes Chieftain

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    I'm a neocon who is going to be voting for Clinton this year and hoping Paul Ryan, Susana Martinez, or SOMEONE good gets the GOP nomination in 2020.
     

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