Alternatives to the third Chinese UHV?

[star15389]

Getting the four cathedrals online fast enough while dealing with the insane barb pressure really gives you the feeling of being an ancient Chinese emperor - way better than RFC! And the tech one (well, getting Compass before Greece) puts a lot of pressure on you to use weird civics and tech less than optimally early on. Until Grand Canal and one big trade with India my economy could not support the three dozens I had to build - and my pagan Qin dynasty almost collapsed! But the third one is just so bleh. You get one golden age from the triumphal arch, another from Olympic Park, so you only need five Great People to win. And you can get one from Econ (easy) and another from Patronage (probably easy; I forgot about this). Achieves itself and essentially amounts to "don't let the Mongols collapse you." Even something boring like "have three Confucian vassals by X date" would be a lot better - maybe even good, since the only way I can think of to do it involves stopping the Mongols from killing Korea. Which reminds me, how does the Confucian spread rule work? I remember as Korea I was allowed to use Confucian missionary on Hanseong but not a city in Manchuria while my state religion was Buddhism, but when I tried to use one on Buddhist Mongolia's Hancheng it didn't let me. Should always be allowed in Korea/Japan/Vietnam area imo

 

[Leoreth]

Good point, I agree that the third goal is kind of a let down compared to the early Chinese game. However, I think it is appropriate for a Chinese UHV to represent the full span of Chinese history, or at least until the end of the Chinese empire. Golden ages and a late deadline are appropriate for that, but the challenge level apparently is not. I'm already thinking about removing Olympic Parks from the game, I think a free GA national wonder for every civ is a bit too much overall. But even then maybe the requirement needs to be increased to six or so.

Also open to alternate suggestions, but it should be something that requires a full game into the 19th century.

As for the religion spread question, only proselytising religions can use missionaries to spread within other civilisations with a different state religion. Those religions are the three Christian denominations, Islam and Buddhism, Confucianism therefore cannot use its missionaries abroad, unless the civ is already Confucian.

 

[Tigranes]

I suggest population goal (for the core only), which will only be achievable with late eras techs and corporations. People were playing games with 1 billion challenge, but of course 1 billion in game does not represent 1 billion in real life. But something similar could. Not a relative %, but one absolute number. Growing cities could be fun, when you simulate Chinese history...

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

How about Great Leap Forward: Have over 25% of the world's production output in 1960?

 

[inthesomeday]

I suggest population goal (for the core only), which will only be achievable with late eras techs and corporations. People were playing games with 1 billion challenge, but of course 1 billion in game does not represent 1 billion in real life. But something similar could. Not a relative %, but one absolute number. Growing cities could be fun, when you simulate Chinese history...

How about Great Leap Forward: Have over 25% of the world's production output in 1960?

These are good ones, I definitely would say it should be something modern if you want something modern. It could also be territorial:

- Control Tibet and Manchuria and allow no Western cities in East Asia in 1960

I've also always felt the Chinese should have some kind of a Wonder condition. The Three Gorges Dam allows this to extend to the modern day:

- Build the Terracotta Army, the Great Wall, the Porcelain Tower, and the Three Gorges Dam

Or something interesting and unique that hasn't been seen before. I have a few ideas about this one, actually:

- Be the first East Asian Civ to adopt Republic, Totalitarianism, and State Property (or their new equivalents), although not necessarily all at once

- Complete trade missions with India, Ethiopia (closest thing to Great Zimbabwe), and Arabia by 1500

- Have a source of Ivory, of Spices, and of Silver, in 1700, without ever having exporting any resources

- Have majority culture ownership of 30 tiles owned by other civs in 1800

- By 1950, every city in your core must have been the capital at some point in your history

 

[star15389]

Pagan Temples for culture, can build Chariots, know Bronze Working - Shang/Zhou
Pantheon/Slavery in the Compass rush, unhappiness from having religions - Qin
Stability and growth, expansion to south and west, state religion is Confucianism - Han
Lots of cultural buildings and cathedrals for first UHV - Tang
Strong medieval era tech lead for second UHV - Song
So what represents the Ming and Qing periods? My suggestion about spreading Confucianism fits since that was the golden age of Neo-Confucianism in Korea and Japan, but that's luck-based now (it rarely spreads to Japan) and too easy with vanilla missionaries unless you can fulfill the condition by just conquering half of Asia, which might be too easy. Just having a big population fits too since China's population exploded in the early Qing, but has the same click enter a hundred times problem the current third condition does. Maybe "Mongols never control a single city in China proper, Manchuria, or Korea"? I won by paying Genghis some gold and having him kill Wang instead, maybe that shouldn't be allowed?

 

[LikeNothing]

The Treasure Voyages / The Tributary System
Have trading relations with Seven Pleased Vassals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_voyages

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Chinese_tributary_system

This may require a bit of rework of peace-vassalization AI code.

Great Unity / Peaceful Rise
Ensure that no Civilization in the world can declare war on any other Civilization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Unity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China's_peaceful_rise

Seek Truth From Facts / One Country, Many Systems
Be the first Civilization to adopt each of 20 non-Religious Civics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seek_truth_from_facts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

Tianxia / Under Heaven
Control or Vassalize the Asia-Pacific.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianxia

 

[star15389]

Six GAs would still be boring but definitely harder! Just played a China game where I'd have just barely done it after spending almost every year between 1580 and 1750 in a GA. Somewhat luck dependent though - I had Islam spread to Karakorum and got the Guns or Butter quest for two easy GAs. Founding Orthodoxy and Catholicism for Versailles is more reliable but I'm not sure it would have been enough

 

[Theodorick]

1. Penglai

Control Korea, Japan, and Taiwan, by 1000AD.

2. Mei Guo

Settle North America by 1433AD

3. Zhongguo

Be the first to complete the tech tree

 

[Malchar]

The third goal could be something like "have one golden age per century between years x and y".

 

[star15389]

The third Indonesian condition has this problem times ten. Maybe it should require a larger population share *by* 1940. 18% or so