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Am I doing anything wrong, here?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by CivFan91, Sep 17, 2005.

  1. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    Yes, I know I am losing money. But only a little, and Writing is a big advance I got to have. I'll lower Science to 90% after Writing (unless something I need comes up) :)
     
  2. berserks01

    berserks01 Obviously Very Confused

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    Why are your cities spread so far out? Hate to burst your bubbles, but tobacco isn't a lux resource. It's more like a bonus resource, you can't trade it. And with that city being that far, you're gonna need a road all the way there to it to be useful or a harbor.

    Lisbon should NEVER, EVER get under pop 1 for the settler factory to work. It needs to be 3 at the lowest and grow 2 pops in 4-5 turns, that's how you get a 4-5 turn settler factory.

    Oporto would have been better if it was 1W of it's current location and still be by a river and you can make use of the cow for another settler factory. Then another city could go into that little hole in the mountains 4N of Lisbon for CxxxC spacing.

    You need to explore more of your area as well, to clear up the black fog so you can plan your city placements better.
     
  3. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    Okay, next round I will switch Lisbon to a Worker. And Oporto was that far away because of the Mountains, and would be further if I took your advice. As to my third city, I got that one FREE, from a GOODY HUT. No offense, but it's kinda silly to not take the gifts I'm given. I could just abandon the third city... but what would that do?

    I don't want to insult you, I did ask for advice/critisicm, but I think a little bit of that is ill founded. As to the exploration, yes, I will take your advice. Now, I said that I have never had a volcano erupt in my borders, right? Well, the volcano is within my borders. If my conjecture (theory) is correct, I will never have pollution there. Ever. Oporto can expand it's cutural borders, or perhaps another Settler can go there. Again, good advice, I thank you. I honestly didn't notice the cattle, I was too busy seeing what was on the edge of the blackness, to see if I had good terrain.

    [rant]As for the tobacco, three out of four are within the Radius. All of them will be when it expands. And since they can't be traded, there is no immediate need to worry about Harbors, yet. A free city from a goody hut with tobacco and Barbs to get my units to be Veterans, I see no problems there. I must stress: I DID NOT FOUND THAT THIRD CITY. IT WAS FREE. Can free cities be so rare that nobody considers it to be possible? I mean, it does happen, from time to time.[/rant]

    OK, no hard feelings, please, Berserks. I mean no insults, do not take this the wrong way. I only disagree with you on about 35% of what you said. Feel free to correct me on this and future posts, because I know you and others have good advice. :)

    I'm still sick, so I may wait a few hours to play another round.
     
  4. berserks01

    berserks01 Obviously Very Confused

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    Hey, sorry if I sounded inappropriate :blush: I just meant it as a question more than a criticism. And popping a city from is goody hut is extreme luck and I've never had it happened to me even once in all my years of civIII, so hats off to you on that.

    Don't abondon the city, keep it there. I just meant that it's far from your main territory and will most likely be self contained for it's entire life til you conquer your way up there or possibly expand up to there.

    With Oporto, I meant that it would be better at the suggested spot and with a city in that little spot in the mountains would make it CxxxC to the would be city in the mountain and another CxxxC from that city to Oporto. Think of a ring around your capital, that's what I meant. But what's done is done, you'll get the cow with border expansion anyway.
     
  5. TimBentley

    TimBentley Deity

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    I'd rather build a mine that will increase production starting now than build irrigation that will increase food a long time later. If you really wanted to, you could build a mine and irrigate it later.
     
  6. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    With those tiles, a 10-turn factory is the best he can do.

    There is a tradeoff between staying at size 1-3 to get the next settler out faster, and staying at size 3-4 to have better production and research. But dropping to size 1 is certainly a reasonable option.
     
  7. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    @Berserks01 - It has already been forgotten and forgiven. Don't worry. :) By the way, I've gotten 3 free cities in mo ther games in the last week. You can have one of mine if you want. ;)

    @TimBentley - True, I suppose, but it will be a waste of time to go back there. Time is not a luxury resource, it's a bonus resource, that comes in one in every 10 Chieftain games, let alone Regent. So, i'll wait it out. I'm doing fairly well, I believe, considering the cr@ppy terrain.

    @DaveMcW - Thank you. It's good to know I am doing "the best I can with the terrain". But if all of my Regent games go this well with favorable terrain, then I'm all set. Of course, there are worse starting positions. My recent MP game was on Regent, playing Portugal. (I've really got a thing for Portugal, don't I? I'd better see a shrink) I needed to be Seafaring, though. Turns out, the ISLAND I was on was in the upper-left corner of the map, and it had zilch. No Iron, no Horses, no Dyes, only a scant few Bonus resources and a few Volcanoes. Which is where I got my Volcano theory, BTW. I filled up the island with 15 cities, and went to another island that had... nothing! (I later found a hidden Iron, after I got it elsewhere.)

    I had to conquer the French and English to even get to Horses and the Iron I mentioned. Really cheesed me off, sepecially since I found the hidden Iron the turn after Paris got whacked, costing me money in my GA, and a lot of units. (YOU try sending Archers vs. Swordsmen, sometime. That takes skill, even on Chief.) After getting Iron, though, the French were history. It was still a bad start, though.

    Maybe that story can be posted in the "Stories and tales" section. I'm bored; I think I'll do that.
     
  8. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Two things 1- use the NOAIPATROL in the conquest.ini so barbs do not sit around.
    2- volcanos, you were lucky that is all in those past games. Iremeber an AU game were Aeson landed a stack to invade and the volcano killed them all. I think this was a deity game, but that is a nasty set back.
     
  9. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    1 - I was playimg MP, and my opponent didn't have NOAIPATROL=0 set, so I couldn't. I forgot to reset it, and will next game.

    2 - That is why I settled Oporto there. I have been playing C3C for three weeks, about 3 games a day, and volcanoes that were extremely active suddenly became dormant. For the whole game, and I settled those cities right next to the volcanoes in the AA. Also, I once had a unit on a hill next to a volcano, and it erupted, and my units were unscathed. It's not that the lava didn't flow there. The pollution did appear. The units survived.

    I'm feeling pretty bad, so I'll wait till 1:30 Pacific Time to play another round. See you in half an hour!
     
  10. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    I promised I would, so here I am:

    ROUND V: TURNS 41-50

    Turn 41
    Changed Lisbon's production to Scout.
    Sent Settler 1 square SouthEast.

    Turn 42
    Lisbon produces Scout. I instruct it to build Curragh. (4 turns)
    Oporto produces Warrior. Instructed it to build Settler. (15 turns)
    Fortified Warrior; told Scout to go SouthEast.
    Lagos Founded; producing Warrior. (5 turns)

    Turn 43
    Mine on BG finished. Building Road.
    Scout is now directly on Lagos.

    Turn 44
    Scout finds Forest SW of Lagos

    Turn 45
    Writing discovered! Chose Philosophy (19 turns)
    Established embassy in Tenochtitlan for a measly 33 gold. They have three cities to my 4.
    Scout finds TONS of grasses, mostly with forests.

    Turn 46
    Curragh complete. Lisbon producing Settler (5 turns)
    Sent Curragh 3 squares West, NW, and North.
    Worker finishes Road. Moving him SW...
    Scout finds Jungle, second Volcano. Jungle can be cleared, but the d@mn volcano...
    Barbs partially surround Guimares.
    Aztec Warrior approaches Guimares.

    Turn 47
    Lagos' Warrior is finished, producing Settler (15 turns)
    Scout climbed to top of Volcano, and spotted ANOTHER VOLCANO.
    Aztec goes around my borders, Barbs stack two Warriors next to it. A fight next to my
    borders not including me...

    Turn 48
    Guimares produces (finally!) Warrior. Because of the surrounding Barb Camp, the city will
    produce Archer (20 turns)

    Turn 48.5
    Aztec attacks, and wins with one HP lost. Barbs counter-strike, and lose, promoting Aztec Warrior to Veteran minus 1 HP.

    Turn 49
    Turned Science down to 90%, losing money too fast.
    Scout found Silks just across the coastline. Ugh!
    Sent worker to BG outside of Lagos.

    Turn 50
    Lisbon produces Settler. Ordered to produce Settler.
    Scout finds another Silks below the other one. It too is across a coastline.
     

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  11. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    Volcanoes will erupt at least once in a long game -- that's how the programming works. It doesn't matter if they're in your borders or not. You've been lucky so far, is all.

    When the volcano by Oporto does erupt, it won't necessarily take out the city, but it could. I once built deliberately adjacent to a volcano in order to claim a gems tile -- the city got fried twice. On the other hand, I had a critical core city in the same game right next to a volcano without ever noticing it (still not sure how that happened; it was a fast "for fun" game, but still ... ), and that one never got hit although I played to the 1700s AD or so.
     
  12. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    I got lucky once for an entire game, with three volcanoes, once. Odds of that are slim. But then, when I won, the most advanced Civ in the game was in mid-Industrial (which was not me). The story is here.
     
  13. pre

    pre Chieftain

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    I like this thread it teaches me how to play.
     
  14. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    Believe it or not, it teaches me how to play, too. :lol:
     
  15. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    All right, I'm going to pull myself together for one more round... then I'm going to a SPS (Sick Person's Sleep) Give me about 10 minutes.
     
  16. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    Round VI is complete. Bold words indicate unit re-names important to the game in the future. Remember especially my Worker that I re-named, b/c it should be with me until 1) He gets killed off, 2) He gets traded or 3) He is killed by Barbs. I never use Workers to add to cities unless the whole continent, no, empire, is fully developed for the rest of the game. There's always something to do...

    ROUND VI: TURNS 51-60

    Turn 51
    Northern Scout found another Goody Hut and will pop it next turn.
    Popped Goody Hut, got Mysticism.
    Aztec Warrior beat me to wiping out the Barb Camp.

    Turn 52
    Because of this, I changed Guimares' production to Spearman to defend from Aztecs.

    Turn 53
    Accidentally commiteed suicide. Northern Scout ran across a loaded Barb Camp and will die.

    Turn 54
    Barbs did as I expected. Scout dead.
    Emerita founded atop a Cattle resource; ordered to produce Warrior.

    Turn 55
    Lisbon produces Settler; producing Settler again.
    NOTE: Lisbon is at size 1 but will grow in 4 turns. I have no choice in this matter.
    Oporto produces Settler; ordered to produce Worker to connect the cities.
    Worker near Lagos renamed to Blue Fox for easy reference. (And for fun)
    Blue Fox sent to Wheat to build Road.
    Lisbon Settler sent North towards Plains. Next settler will be sent SW of Emerita.

    Turn 56
    Blue Fox begins building Roads on the Wheat, will soon Mine it...

    Turn 57
    Lisbon's borders expand!! Yay!

    Turn 58
    Lagos builds Settler. Ordered to continue Settler factory.
    Lagos Settler sent SW of Emerita, as promised.
    Sagres founded NW of Oporto next to Cattle and Sugar. Makes up for the over-abundance of Plains, I guess.
    Sagres building Warrior.
    Southern Scout makes it back to my borders, and re-named "Veteran Scout" for his service.

    Turn 59
    Emerita builds Warrior; ordered to build Settler.
    Blue Fox finishes Road on Wheat, begins Mining...

    Turn 60
    Philosophy is going to be discovered in one turn, so Science is temporarily set to 60% for quick cash.
    Veteran Scout sent out for another exploratory mission NW of Emerita.
    Coimbra founded just north of the Mountains north of Lisbon. Building Warrior.
    Contacted the Aztecs and found out their scientfic achievments match me stride for stride. The philosophy slingshot should change that.
    Also, Aztecs have more Luxuries and money. Bad news. Better settle quickly and conquer.

    Notes:
    *I appear to be alone on this continent with the Aztecs.
    *The terrain is very cr@ppy in most places, but it isn't the worst I've ever seen.
    *I already control about 1/6 of the explored territory, here. though there is a chunk missing, there's nobody in there except maybe some of it is Aztecs. How did I arrive at such a conclusion? Here is my logic:

    1 - I have an embassy with the Aztecs, who are partially in that Fog of War, and they have no contact with anyone but me

    2 - My Curragh explored the coast, found nothing suggesting a Civilization

    3 - I have seen no other nationality's units. (If I did, I'd be pop-rushing Spearmen instead of building Settlers first.)

    The pic shows my major expansion thus far. It does not show the Curragh's exploration.
     

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  17. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    Boy, that SPS felt good... feel free to criticise, maybe I needed that nap...
     
  18. CivFan91

    CivFan91 Emperor

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    Wow, no comments. That's either really, really good, or my humble nation is about to die...

    Inspired by the apparent lack of errors, I prepared another log. Here is Round VII. Note especially a little issue that appears to be a bug related to Science. I might be wrong, though:
    ROUND VII: TURNS 61-70

    Turn 61
    Got Philosophy, and the slingshot! Gained Code of Laws free, now researching Republic.
    Soon will come the time when my irrigation of the Sugar pays off. :joke:
    Attacked Barb Galley with my Curragh; Galley sunk and I lost one HP.
    Found what HAS to be a bug; Republic currently takes 50 turns regardless of my Science Setting. Science temporarily set to 10%... :)

    Turn 62
    This odd bug continues to affect me. Science remains at 10%, but I will check each turn.

    Turn 64
    Lisbon produces Settler. I'm not even going to bother saying that I'm continuing production of Settler from now on. I'll let you know if it changes.
    Leiria founded; producing Warrior.

    Turn 65
    Oporto and Coimbra build Worker and Warrior, respectively, both now are producing Settler.
    Blue Fox heads to BG above Emerita.

    Turn 66
    Guimaraes produces Spearmen. Producing Settler, now, since it is size 4.
    Sagres produces Warrior; building Settler.
    Blue Fox begins mining the BG.

    Turn 69
    Exploring Curragh discovers the Byzantines. They have Masonry and Wheel, but are lacking Writing. They value Writing fairly low, so I didn't trade it.
    Ooookay, the continent is bigger than I thought. Can you blame me?

    Turn 70
    Barb horseman is two squares away from my Veteran Scout. Luckily, I can match his speed, and lure him into a trap...

    It still takes 40 turns to get Republic whether Science is at 10% or 100%. Very odd.

    Here is a composite of my empire:
     

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  19. TimBentley

    TimBentley Deity

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    Not a bug. 50 turns is the maximum research time, so if 100% research isn't enough to be faster, that will be the time regardless of your research setting (other than no research, obviously). This is common when researching republic.

    Coimba (possibly Oporto) is going to waste time when it completes its settler before growing to size 3. Generally, not all cities should produce settlers; Lagos looks like the best city for a settler factory.
     
  20. berserks01

    berserks01 Obviously Very Confused

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    I never mine wheat/cows regardless of whether they sit on greens or plains. Irrigating gives more food.

    I also never settle on cow/wheat because settling gives the spot a mined affect (I think).

    I agree with Tim about Coimba. Maybe switch it to something else before settler so as not to waste turns it could use to produce something useful.

    I don't think you have enough workers either. I usually have at least one per city, so you can improve your land faster to generate more income, grow your land faster, produce more shields for faster production of units/improvements.

    You might want to research/trade for Iron Working and that tech that allows you to see horses (slipped my mind at the moment) to see if you have any horses and/or iron in your territory so you can connect them and start building better units.
     

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