Am I the only one feeling gunships unrealistic?

[balthamael]

I remeber my early game where i built stacks of gunships ona city in an island next to an enemy, on archipelago. i took abt 10 minutes trying to make them croos over, checking civpedia......was slightly miffed as it was one tile.

 

[synthboy]

I remeber my early game where i built stacks of gunships ona city in an island next to an enemy, on archipelago. i took abt 10 minutes trying to make them croos over, checking civpedia......was slightly miffed as it was one tile.

That's priceless I used to end up doing something similar with settlers in Civ 3. I'd build about 3 and then realise that all the land had gone. I was always loath to ditch my investment so they'd sit around draining cash usually.

 

[Thalassicus]

I've been playing with Gunships railroad-enabled for several months now, and I'm not sure why they disabled this in the game.

All units move 10 tiles per turn on railroads, regardless of their initial movement points...maybe this is a hangover from a time when railroads gave road-like multipliers to movement?

I really havn't found why it would be a problem for gunships to have normal movement in your territory...taking it for granted now. Otherwise it makes Gunships almost worse than the Cossacks they upgrade from

 

[enchanter100]

I don't understand why people have to say "look out your window" for realism. I'm sure we all understand this is a game and are just suggesting changes for the better.

 

[Ranos]

My biggest gripe about choopers is not with the choppers themselves, but the fact that cavalry upgrades to them. Attack choppers were first used in Korea, I think, or at least the early '60s. Cavalry went out of style in WWI. I modded my files so cavalry upgrade to tanks.

 

[Eternalsteelfan]

I like the gunships, the movement can be improved but what destroys armored cav better?

 

[Sparta]

My biggest gripe about choopers is not with the choppers themselves, but the fact that cavalry upgrades to them. Attack choppers were first used in Korea, I think, or at least the early '60s. Cavalry went out of style in WWI. I modded my files so cavalry upgrade to tanks.

I assume it is because helicopter divisions are still referred to as '[Air] Cavalry' divisions, so while it may not make the most sense unitwise, from a military history or unit designation perspective it does. If it helps, think of unit promotions as buying better equipment for already fielded troops, rather than direct upgrades - otherwise there would be too many problems to reconcile. Catapult parts aren't that useful in making cannons either, nor the latter in making howitzers.

Initially a new experimental unit was formed, the 11th Air Assault Division, combining light infantry with integral helicopter transport and air support. Following training and testing, the unit was activated for Vietnam service with the designation 1st Air Cavalry Division, continuing the tradition of the 1st Cavalry Division.

The first unit of the new division to see action was the U.S. 7th Cavalry Regiment, led by Lieutenant Colonel Harold G. Moore, an old army paratrooper. This was the same regiment that Custer had commanded at the Battle of the Little Bighorn. On November 14, 1965, he led his troops in the first large unit engagement of the 1960s Vietnam War, which took place near the Chu Pong massif near the Vietnam-Cambodia border. It is known today as the Battle of Ia Drang Valley.

This unit gave common currency to the US term Air Cavalry.

(Another example: Dragoons were short-range horse-mounted soldiers employed in the U.S. Civil War (among others). That unit designation today would be operating predominantly in Hum-Vees, to the best of my knowledge.)

Please pardon the interruption. I agree that Gunships should definitely be able to hop small channels of water, FWIW.

 

[Ranos]

I assume it is because helicopter divisions are still referred to as '[Air] Cavalry' divisions, so while it may not make the most sense unitwise, from a military history or unit designation perspective it does. If it helps, think of unit promotions as buying better equipment for already fielded troops, rather than direct upgrades - otherwise there would be too many problems to reconcile. Catapult parts aren't that useful in making cannons either, nor the latter in making howitzers.

Actually it is because it was armored cavalry in the form of tanks that replaced cavalry in WWI and that attack choppers didn't enter the picture until a few decades earlier. I do think of upgrades as buying better equipment but having a tanks and mounted cavalry in my cities' build choices at the same time just feels wrong.

 

[lordex]

I assume it is because helicopter divisions are still referred to as '[Air] Cavalry' divisions, so while it may not make the most sense unitwise, from a military history or unit designation perspective it does.

Right on - why are they referred to as air cavalry divisions? Because with the "integral helicopter transport" (as quoted from Wiki) they are actually supposed to move faster than infantry divisions, or tanks, for that matter.

 

[petertr2000]

The question for movement is - Would you load your choppers onto rails, or would they fly over?

If they fly over, then they should get about 3 times the speed of a tank (150m/h vs 50m/h).

 

[ferenginar]

I like choppers but they do have issues, movement being one of them. I find them underpowered particularly because they do not receive defensive bonus es. I have no issues with them not receiving the bonus but it does leave them vulnerable at 24 with SAM getting a 50% bonus giving 27 on attack and potentially much more on defense.

Choppers now seem relegated to little more than pillaging and only if supported by infantry in a defensive position. Fortify your infantry in forest, chopper moves out one square pillages and moves back, clear the area ahead then move the team onto the next defensive position. If you leave your chopper in the open up pops a SAM from up to 10 tiles away and down comes the chopper.

We all know this is a game and do not expect it to be realistic but I do feel that these choppers need reviewing. Suggestions would be, Travel over water, but not end turn; Increased movement within own cultural borders, rebase, and increased withdraw capabilities. Or just up the standard from 24 to 27 make SAM v Chopper a 50:50 on attack and a bonus to SAM in defense from the terrain where applicable.

 

[Kurbads]

Somebody said spearmen shouldnt be able to kill chopters. It recalled me a news headline few month ago, mexican illegal border crossers shot down an american border patrol chopter ... throwing stones. In WWII german tanks were well taken out with Molotov coctails, basically a weapon somebody can make easely from household available chemicals.

 

[DeltaV]

Right on - why are they referred to as air cavalry divisions? Because with the "integral helicopter transport" (as quoted from Wiki) they are actually supposed to move faster than infantry divisions, or tanks, for that matter.

They're not. They're called 'Airmobile' or 'Air Assault' divisions. There are no 'Air Cavalry' divisions. The 1st Cavalry Division, in Vietnam, was officially called "1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile)". The only current airmobile division in the US is the 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile).

In the US military, 'Air Cavalry' refers reconnaissance units equipped with helicopters. They preform the traditional cavalry duties of scouting and screening for the main force. Horse cavalry was still used in this role in WWII.

AFAIK, the US is the only country to refer to it's reconnaissance units as 'Cavalry'.

 

[Older than Dirt]

Gunships are useful for cutting roads to stop enemy counter attacks when you invade. They are very effective against tanks and modern army if you have none of those - notice how the AI builds tons of them and will attack your tanks with them. They make real pretty fireworks when an elephant grabs them with his trunk and smashes them.

 

[lord_graywolfe]

i like the gunships in general but thier movement is a problem. part of it is that they upgrade from a mounted unit which is why they cant move over water. because of this they are also not considered an air unit and so the sam units get no bounus against them. the heli unit has no one that is geared as a defender against them making them a bit to powerful in the game. they really need to add a promo against the heli, like +25% against heli. there are alot of problems with this unit but i still use them.