Amazingly bad buildings?

[Thalassicus]

Is there some brilliant strategy with these I might be unaware of, or do you ignore them like I've started to?

• Stable
  Must build more than 9 chariot archers or 6 horsemen to just break even in . Hit by game-long maintenance cost, delays unit creation, no benefit to rush-purchasing, and must have horses in an area worth building a military-production city.
  .
• Granary, Watermill
  Large , /turn cost (with no leader traits to speed production), maritime city-states, slower population growth overall in V.
  .
• Castle, Military Base
  Same , /turn as an average unit, yet low damage, cannot move, promote, create great generals, or be disbanded. A single city with all defensive buildings costs 1125 (more than the Taj Mahal) and 10/turn. Might be useful if-when combat AI is improved.
  .
• University, Public School, Research Lab
  Trade /turn for /turn, despite increased usefulness of in CiV, and technological progress already faster than production. This is more due to overall tech vs production ratio than the fault of these individual buildings, however.
  .
• Museum, Opera House, Broadcast Tower
  Huge /turn costs for anything but a cultural victory. Great artists less useful.
  .
• Windmill
  Bonus so small and cost so high the break-even point is 1800, 70 turns for even a highly-productive city in the era these become available. Meanwhile, you delayed production and are incurring maintenance.
  .
• Hospital, Medical Lab
  Steep cost makes purchase the only option for small cities, where the benefit would last longest. Then you're also hit with a large /turn cost. In big cities (20+) growth is so slow that by the time Hospitals/Labs become available, you can only gain perhaps 1-2 extra points of population before the game ends, while incurring a massive maintenance hit.

Update: Best thing about Civ is we don't have to wait for the development team to improve the fun we have playing. I've improved these buildings slightly to make them a little more worth building (link), and also slightly improved some weaker wonders. You can see some other small mods below, such as +1 to Mines and Lumbermills with Engineering. If you feel you might like to try something new, give these a shot, and you can always easily fiddle with the settings in the XML files further to your own personal preference.

 

[jagdtigerciv]

As much as i'm enjoying Civ5. I'd have to agree with this list, minus the University (usually only one, for my very heavy science city).

 

[Tarkeel]

I'm just running through a Indian 3CC Cultural (for the achievement); and when you are constraining yourself to such a small civ then Hospitals really shine. Even at sizes over 20, my cities were growing every 5 turns or so for new specialists.

Main reason for buying library/university (even in this situation I didn't build further down the line) is to get the specialists (which the lovely UI won't tell you about untill you build it or read the 'pedia).

It seems the only time it's worth building these buildings is when you're running a high-pop low-city civilization with pure specialist economy, and even then it's questionable. Buildings in general feel like you're building wonders without the benefit, especially since hammers are harder to come by in this game. It's really bad that you can't even destroy or disable unwanted buildings, but have to keep paying maintenance for the rest of the game.

As much as i'm enjoying Civ5. I'd have to agree with this list, minus the University (usually only one, for my very heavy science city). I would like to see stables, or mounted units in general, effectiveness/usefulness increased. Currently, they're dismal compared to archers.

My experience with mounted units is quite the opposite; you can maul through everything (even spears and pikes) without fear. Mobility and initiative is king when it comes to warfare in CivV. Just take care to not let your horses be counter attacked and , and skirt around spears hiding out in rough terrain and you are golden. In my first game as Alexander, I could wipe out entire civs in les then 5 turns.

 

[stealth_nsk]

University, Public School, Research Lab provide science specialist slots, so they are very useful for GP farm. Same for culture buildings.

 

[keisukekun]

you should be able to demolish building if you have no use of them anymore. What theres cant be like a demolition tech somewhere.

 

[Kronpas]

I dont build castle if its not the frontline border city.

Culture buildings help offset the increased cost of buying social policies when you have too many cities (not puppeted cities).

 

[SevenSpirits]

You left out some of the buildings.

 

[Stalker0]

Let me throw the courthouse in there. Takes forever to build, very high maintenance cost. The fact that you have to deal with the unhappiness for a long time. The fact that its often better to raze your enemies cities and rebuild your own just seems silly due to this building.

 

[Thalassicus]

Superb point about the specialists and ironically not on the building description.

Still, great artists are less useful for non-culture-victory games now, since culture bomb no longer stops an occupied city's unrest. I find myself avoiding any cultural buildings but a monument and (possibly) temple. Likewise, a single university in my capital and GP city, yet nowhere else.

Half the buildings in the build list feel like wasted space now...

 

[Tarkeel]

Still, great artists are less useful for non-culture-victory games now, since culture bomb no longer stops an occupied city's unrest. I find myself avoiding any cultural buildings but a monument and (possibly) temple.

I misread the great artist, and though it would expand the borders of a friendly city by 1, and though that ability was kinda 'meh'. Imagine my surprise when I found it was actually worse..

Half the buildings in the build list feel like wasted space now.

Atleast they are only showing us the buildings you can currently build?
It's sad having to go into the 'pedia to figure out why you can't build that lovely museum you just researched, instead of having it greyed out in the build list like it used to be.

 

[Evalis]

I don't think the issue with the castle and military base is that they are statistically poor, but that city strength isn't the same as unit strength.. I mean my 40 strength city can't even one shot a barbarian warrior. And it =always= takes at least 1 point of damage even from the most technologically inferior units. Specialists are really kind of 'meh' if you aren't running freedom. They are pretty good if you have the statue of liberty.. however I think you are overlooking the usefulness of culture for the purposes of grabbing land.

This is especially true if you buid the angkor wat or play as the russians.

I do agree on most of these points though. I'm curious how the game would play without building any buildings but commerce..

 

[Nutteria]

If you are playing small sized empire then building univercitys in all citys is very helpfull due to the nation wander(+50% science in the city) and the +1 to GS.

The problem I have with most buildings is that when I play Egypt.I just mass spam burial tombs and I don`t ever need any other culture building..par monument.

The +happyness buildings are must have if you have 12+ citys.

What I find not optimised is that all the lategame buildings like broadcast tower school and museum are just too slow to build for one and have very high maintentance thus they are avoided.

I don`t build granary hospital or lab.Just don`t see a reason why should I when you can easly get the we love the <leader> growth pretty easly in most cases.(xcept when they want diamonds )

 

[Thalassicus]

I just looked, and discovered even in the Civlopedia it does not tell you how many specialist slots a building gives, only their type. Unless you played Civ IV, you'd have no idea these buildings give multiple specialist slots until you actually build them.

 

[ThERat]

Something has to be seriously tweaked here, else all those buildings are only good for very small 'empires'.

Buildings are too expensive and provide too little bonus. Those +xp buildings are unnecessary as you can gain xp faster by beating up barbarians.

So, either those buildings cost less shields or provide better gains. They said, you need to specialize your cities. However, now what you build for a bigger empire are +happiness buildings and + gold stuff. This has nothing to do with diversifying your cities.

Penalties for big empires are so big, it is not civilization as it used to be. Civ games have always been about building something big. Just look at the silly nation wonders. Must have the building in every city? So, again you are discouraged to expand.

 

[Semmel]

The problem is that you have no alternative to put your hammers into once you build all the buildings you desire. Hammers are only converted 10% into gold or 25% into science. So you might as well build culture buildings to do something useful with your hammers. And quite honestly.. I build barracks and the other XP-enhancing buildings in only one or two cities and it is quite sufficient to build units only in there. So you really have no alternative to put your hammers at use.

Also I do not agree with your list. Not all cities should have all buildings. For example I build a city in the middle of the desert to get an oil ressource. That city would never grow without a grannery. Also in my production cities for units an wonders, I do not want my population in farms but rather in mines. So I build the grannary and watermill there to have more free pop at the hammers. The culture is not useless. SP can make a huge difference in science, military and production (Communism for example gives you 5 hammers in every city!). You have to get there somehow and if you have a large empire, it is quite useful to have some cities devoted to culture in order to get the SP you desire. Of course, if you play Civ5 like Civ4 and build everything everywhere, you digg your self a nice and deep grave.

 

[Gath]

The problem is that you have no alternative to put your hammers into once you build all the buildings you desire. Hammers are only converted 10% into gold or 25% into science. So you might as well build culture buildings to do something useful with your hammers. And quite honestly.. I build barracks and the other XP-enhancing buildings in only one or two cities and it is quite sufficient to build units only in there. So you really have no alternative to put your hammers at use.

Also I do not agree with your list. Not all cities should have all buildings. For example I build a city in the middle of the desert to get an oil ressource. That city would never grow without a grannery. Also in my production cities for units an wonders, I do not want my population in farms but rather in mines. So I build the grannary and watermill there to have more free pop at the hammers. The culture is not useless. SP can make a huge difference in science, military and production (Communism for example gives you 5 hammers in every city!). You have to get there somehow and if you have a large empire, it is quite useful to have some cities devoted to culture in order to get the SP you desire. Of course, if you play Civ5 like Civ4 and build everything everywhere, you digg your self a nice and deep grave.

The way the game is now a lot of cities should have no buildings. They buildings in Civ 5 are terribly balanced for reward / cost. there is no arguing that.

 

[pi-r8]

the stable is decent. If you start with a small supply of horses and run out, you can build it while waiting to hook up more horses. And, I think it pays for itself after 5 horsemen.

I do agree with your larger point though, that most of the buildings seem either worthless or very marginal.

 

[bal_rob]

Very good post.

Is there a mechnaism to get these points back to Fireaxis? I would imagine this is the sort of thing that can be easily tweaked in a patch?

 

[Tregon]

If you are playing small sized empire then building univercitys in all citys is very helpfull due to the nation wander(+50% science in the city) and the +1 to GS.

The problem I have with most buildings is that when I play Egypt.I just mass spam burial tombs and I don`t ever need any other culture building..par monument.

The +happyness buildings are must have if you have 12+ citys.

What I find not optimised is that all the lategame buildings like broadcast tower school and museum are just too slow to build for one and have very high maintentance thus they are avoided.

I don`t build granary hospital or lab.Just don`t see a reason why should I when you can easly get the we love the <leader> growth pretty easly in most cases.(xcept when they want diamonds )

I would build more buildings if times to build were not so ridiculously lopsided compared to speed I tech at.

Even higher end production city builds most buildings at slower pace than I progress another step in the techtree. Single wonder construction equals 3-4 tech levels.

Most units in terms of tech level are around 3/4.

 

[vranasm]

in last games I usually build only this buildings:

monument, mint where available, market, bank, library, colosseum depending on needs.

that's it. The payback is horrible in most instances, but this buildings at least always help and some of them don't cost money.

Oh and of course courthouses in former capitals and CS which I take as part of quests.

Btw the courthouse should be seriously lowered in cost... I can't imagine any serious empire will let enemy city without functioning policy for 200+ years (20+ turns usually for building).

Devs maybe say we should specialize, but we always could even with lower costs! Buildings should be cheap so people have real options and not some lame attempt at limiting what you can really do.