AMAZON Diplomacy Discussion

[Trystero]

Thanks for the help. It's better this way, yeah. Just one thing: "(ETTT is still in effect, and apparently nobody WAS voted out to date)", as in line 2.2 of the ETTT. Not shure if "nobody has voted out" works in that way. If it does, even better.

Yeah, was is better.

I understand your consern, Trystero, but we'll be indeed giving something. We'll be giving the illusion that the restribution of the spoils won't be that un-even. Amazon will also be glad that CDZ get part of the continent instead of us(that Amazon might intend to take from, very likely).

I would just leave that part out. Let them initiate discussions about how to divide Quatronia territory (assuming we capture any!).

 

[BLubmuz]

Altria's message to Ama with the corrections of Trystero sounds OK to me.

 

[Alltriia]

Trystero: OK, if you think it's better, I'll take
"We might need to have three fronts here. Sirius will aim at Q's island, CDZ takes Q's south spoke(Hoag) cities and you take Merlot's island." out.
I was trying to give an innocent and sharing kind of attitude and trying to play on their preying impulses.

Six hours for the end of the turn. HUSch, any ideas?

 

[Alltriia]

So, new draft:

Dear Amazonian Friends,

We declined your recent map exchange offer, as we would like to discuss the current situation and where we go from here concerning technology sharing and resource trades.

First off, regarding Quatronia: What's your stance with them? We think that an embargo might be effective as we're thinking of using the same espionage tactics that you used with Merlot. We do not however want to put you in a position where you feel you must compromise your integrity regarding your relationship to to them (ETTT is still in effect, and apparently nobody was voted out to date). Do you know CDZ's inclination on the matter?
If I remember correctly, your primary concern was that Quatronia would take ETTT's techs and flip to M&M.

How are things on the Merlot front? We've seen your recruiting efforts some turns ago and got a bit confused but today we just noticed Merlot score decrease. Is that your doing? We might be in the midle of something ourselves, but I don't think it does any harm asking if you need some help.

This is just a short letter as we might need to volley the ideas a bit more.
You seem open to continue with our pact. Are you interested in extending it?

Waiting a speedy reply,
Alltriia, on behalf of Team Sirius.

Think it's going over the top asking them if they want any kind of help?

 

[AlphaShard]

They asked, well almost ordered, us to help before. I don't think its a bad idea to offer. Though we have committed to fighting the Quat so I think we can't help much.

 

[Alltriia]

heh Almost ordered? When?

I tweeked the message somewhat. What do you guys think?

 

[AlphaShard]

Right here.

Also we can still do a map trade just keep that trade separate from the Tech or Resource trades.

 

[Alltriia]

HAHA! Right, I remember that one. That was play, altho aparently there wasn't much coordination between them.
That does reminds me, we need to push culture a bit more in Comet. I want Amazon to feel the pressure of their mistaken expantion on Comet.

 

[AlphaShard]

HAHA! Right, I remember that one. That was play, altho aparently there wasn't much coordination between them.
That does reminds me, we need to push culture a bit more in Comet. I want Amazon to feel the pressure of their mistaken expantion on Comet.

To that end I suggest Universities.

 

[Trystero]

Alltriia: Looks good. (but midle is spelled middle. )

 

[Alltriia]

Sent.

 

[Alltriia]

What the hell, man? What's up with the sudden mood swings?
Anyone oposes this one? What to modify before sending?

Dear Amazonian Friends,

Yes, that's why when in unforseen situations(where both members of the ETTT would be in war against eachother.) that we decided to hold the techs before discussing the problem with you. Is it so hard to have conserns about our enemy getting a tech that we researched ourselves throught another civ? Be assured that it isn't our intent to keep you out of techs we researched but to talk to you first.
So, what do we do now? We don't mind abbyding to the ASP at all but we definitly won't give away our techs to Quatronia.

No, we couldn't have shared our plans for Q in the last letter because we didn't had any at the time but the embargo and the spy thing.
We can say now that the only ones that have land oil tiles are we, you and CDZ(Only in Anjennida, Cigar(SE spoke) and Comet). There's a ocean oil tile in each island, but as well as you know civs will need to go for Plastics to get it. Q without any oil based units is a sitting duck. We might go through this path, but we're still discussing.

This whole mess started by our rush and forgueting the diplomatic binds as we pointed out in our 12th May letter and we've been thinking on how to keep still abbyding to the documents we signed. As our main ally in the game, we definitly await your kind words of wisdom.

I've noticed a request for Scientific Method this turn. We stand by the words we wrote before; We do want to share technology with you, but not with Q. Don't ask us again untill we(Sirius and Amazons) find a way to prevent Q from have access to techs developed by Sirius.

Alltriia, on behalf of Team Sirius.

Hmmm...Don't like butt licking, but what you guys think?

EDIT: And thanks to Lord Parkin to be ontop of the correspondence.

I've added a paragraph at the end as they are asking fro Scientific Method. I'm inclined to send this as soon as possible.

 

[BLubmuz]

Aside some mispelled words which i'm sure some native speaker will correct, i think your draft message is OK.

 

[Alltriia]

New draft. Hope I managed to correct most of the typos.

Dear Amazonian Friends,

Yes, that's why when in unforeseen situations(where both members of the ETTT would be in war against each other.) that we decided to hold the techs before discussing the problem with you. Is it so hard to have concerns about our enemy getting a tech that we researched ourselves through another civ? Be assured that it isn't our intent to keep you out of techs we researched but to talk to you first.
So, what do we do now? We don't mind abiding to the ASP at all but we definitely won't give away our techs to Quatronia.

No, we couldn't have shared our plans for Q in the last letter because we didn't had any at the time but the embargo and the spy ideas.
We can say now that the only ones that have land oil tiles are we, you and CDZ(Only in Anjennida, Cigar(SE spoke) and Comet). There's a ocean oil tile in each island, but as well as you know civs will need to go for Plastics to get it. Q without any oil based units is a sitting duck. We might go through this path, but we're still discussing.

This whole mess started by our rush and forgetting the diplomatic binds as we pointed out in our 12th May letter and we've been thinking on how to keep still abiding to the documents we signed. As our main ally in the game, we definitely await your kind words of wisdom.

I've noticed a request for Scientific Method this turn. We stand by the words we wrote before; We do want to share technology with you, but not with Q. Don't ask us again until we(Sirius and Amazons) find a way to prevent Q from have access to techs developed by Sirius.

Alltriia, on behalf of Team Sirius.

 

[Trystero]

I don't like this sentence:

Don't ask us again until we(Sirius and Amazons) find a way to prevent Q from have access to techs developed by Sirius.

It implies pretty strongly that we don't trust them.

There is also the issue of agreements. We agreed to share techs with Amazon and the ETTA. But unilaterally decided to break from the ETTT and are now deciding the terms by which we will abide by prior agreements. If I were Amazon, I would be getting sick of this. I would give them the techs (How precisely do you intend to keep Quatronia from getting techs if you don't trust Amazon?)

 

[Alltriia]

You're right, I'll remove the sentence. I wasn't all that happy with it. I just wanted to find a way to ask them to not ask again while we don't have the agreement re-newed.

OK, what do you want to do, then? Give the techs and hope the Quatronia won't receive them? What's the point of researching then?
And about CDZ? I also think we should talk with CDZ about Q as soon as possible.

 

[Trystero]

OK, what do you want to do, then? Give the techs and hope the Quatronia won't receive them? What's the point of researching then?
And about CDZ? I also think we should talk with CDZ about Q as soon as possible.

Well, this is something that would have to be sorted out eventually. The only reason it is an issue now is that we decided (unilaterally) to break off from the ETTT. The alternative would have been to wait until Merlot was finished when breaking up the ETTT would be the natural next step. We forced the issue, so I think it is reasonable for us to face some consequences in that we now have to trust the rest of ETTT to not share tech with Quatronia. The alternative is to break off from the ETTT completely and not share techs with anybody. I really don't see how we can guarantee that techs won't be shared with Q. And it's a little presumptuous to break a previous agreement (by leaving the ETTT) and insist that other teams assure us that we can trust them.

That's my perspective at least.

 

[Alltriia]

Now? wait, we're onto the ETTT issue for sometime now. Some of us wanted to leave it even before invading Mav's Comet cities and some wanted to continue untill M&M existed(as Amazon wanted).

I'm not trying to break off from the ETTT right now(altho is not a bad idea) but to see that Q won't receive any of our tech research efforts. I thought I made it very clear in the letter.

EDIT: OK, we do have one edge even if Q will get the same techs as us. Their only way for them to build oil based units will be or getting it from Amazon or CDZ or researching Plastics.
Thoughts?

 

[Trystero]

I'm not trying to break off from the ETTT right now(altho is not a bad idea) but to see that Q won't receive any of our tech research efforts. I thought I made it very clear in the letter.

I understand that. I think what I was trying to say is that I don't see an easy way (diplomatically) to be sure of this. CDZ is really the unknown factor, since they never gave an answer to proposition to kick out Quat.

 

[Alltriia]

I understand that. I think what I was trying to say is that I don't see an easy way (diplomatically) to be sure of this. CDZ is really the unknown factor, since they never gave an answer to proposition to kick out Quat.

Yes. And they didn't forgot about it according with one recent email. I say we put them on the horn right away.