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America and Democracy

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by AnotherPacifist, Dec 1, 2007.

?

Should America start with Democracy

  1. Yes, since democracy is the hallmark of the American Dream

    59.0%
  2. No, we all like police states and theocracies

    41.0%
  1. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Deity

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    Maybe this will help future RFC players:
     
  2. potatokiosk

    potatokiosk Deity

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    Personally I think it's more historical if America doesn't start with Democracy because then America will have reforms in the 19th century: abolish slavery and extend suffrage to everyone. With Democracy America can immediately adopt civics to use for the rest of the game.
     
  3. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    Yeah, its better if they have to use representation first...
     
  4. The Q-Meister

    The Q-Meister King

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    3 points:

    1. Too many theocracies and police states in the game? Agreed.
    2. Not enough "democracies", republics and so on? Agreed.
    3. Democracy is the "hallmark" of the "American Dream" :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Millionaire A vs Millionaire B; funded by the same exact people, real democratic, must be why the voter turnout is so high in America (sarcasm)

    But I digress
     
  5. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    I misundestood the question, delete this post.
     
  6. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Deity

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    It's fine that you can USE representation first (in fact that's what I do until I hit 6+ cities and have towns to use the hammers), but without Democracy to start building the Statue of Liberty first, you simply can't get to Assembly line in time to build the Pentagon first. (I get to the Statue almost every time now with the new patch, but the Pentagon is usually built at the same time as I finish the statue)
     
  7. Depravo

    Depravo Siring Bastards

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    I don't think slavery 'fits' as a civic for the antebellum US; it calls to mind vast armies of thralls raising obelisks and that, not just regional field workers. Just because a civ had slaves doesn't mean Slavery should automatically be the civic.
     
  8. potatokiosk

    potatokiosk Deity

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    Tribalism: No.
    Serfdom: Closest America ever got to serfs was indentured servitude, and indentured servants are still pretty different from serfs, so no.
    Caste System: America has a legacy of high social mobility, that's part of the whole American Dream thing. Totally different from keeping people in the position they're born in until the day they die.
    Emancipation: Can't apply this to a society that forces people to be field workers or household servants. Besides, having a turn of anarchy to implement seems to be the closest to an American Civil War that RFC can get at this point.

    Slavery seems best to me, seeing how half of US states had slaves.
     
  9. Corm

    Corm Prince

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    If the USA started with Democracy, Emancipation etc I would just switch to Slavery, Rep and Nationalisim till the early wars are over anyway. As far as im concerned the UP coupled with Slavery is your pathway to early, necessary power and catch up, i'd go as far as to say essential.
     
  10. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Deity

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    Maybe that's why I had such a hard time with the 1700-1800's. I used just my starting troops and maybe a couple that Washington built. (I chose Representation, pacifism, bureaucracy and mercantilism but left out the labor until I got democracy to switch to emancipation).
     
  11. sdLeo

    sdLeo Cosmopolitan

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    I don't EVER play the US, so I don't know if it would be better gameplay-wise or not...

    But the US starting with Democracy, it seems to me, is like China starting with the Great Wall (or whatever tech it is unlocked with - Construction?)... Or France starting with Music...
     
  12. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    America is a police state now right now...
     
  13. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    That was Stupid.

    Police states have single party rule.

    Anyway, I'd like to restate that HALF of the U.S. states practiced slavery, and half didn't. Thus emancipation and slavery could be representative, though eman. more so since the game usually has New York & Washington(North) and usually 1 city in the south.

    ALso, it would make it less overpowered for U.S. to start with representation, but with heavy attitude modifiers towards going to democracy.
     
  14. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    ask your Darth Vader. You won't be so sure
     
  15. a1Basco

    a1Basco Warlord

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    Yeah, Our TWO party rule really is that different.

    Plus, who says they don't cooperate with eachother, and make under the table deals?

    They might as well be the same party.
     
  16. Depravo

    Depravo Siring Bastards

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    America is a long way short of, say, the Soviet Union on the internal terror front and it's the height of histrionics to claim otherwise.
     
  17. sdLeo

    sdLeo Cosmopolitan

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    Nah, y'all don't understand a thing about N. America...

    The US don't need to terrorize/control their population. We N. Americans are all fat and lazy and can't think for ourselves. We will not resist, so no need to repress consenting sheep.

    The most we care about the outside world is whether or not we'll pay less or more for gas...
     
  18. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Deity

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    sdLeo is so right. That's why at the end of my UHV everybody in the world hated me because I got all their oil!:lol: Besides Arabia and England nobody else had destroyers and I was the only one with tanks.
    Getting back to the poll, the only reason I asked that was because it makes building the Statue so much easier. I used Representation right until I was first in science (having all those free specialists from the Statue just makes good science). Emancipation was useful in the game only as a culture booster and make other cultures unhappy, as simple as that. I did NOT want to elicit so much political commentary in this thread.
     
  19. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    The hallmark of the American Dream is by no means democracy. I'm really sick to see how americans think they're the shining example of democracy. It's not like that and even if, I don't know anyone who would move to another continent because of the government system of a country. The hallmark of the American Dream is a new land to take with all its economical advantages. It's like when you're at the supermarket in a long queue and the cashier is an ugly old woman, then a new pay desk opens up and the cashier is a pretty and young woman. You will run to that desk for the woman or to be faster ?

    @sdLeo it's the same in Europe and we will not protest because we ARE oppressed in a subtle way. In fact, in our so called democracies, protesting serves for nothing and you will most likely end up in prison or be frowned at at the very least.
     
  20. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    Maybe cause they b**** at eachother 24/7.

    2 party rule is very different, considering they're polar opposite on almost everyting. Incidentally, can you name 3 things they completley agree on?
     

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