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America, Denmark, India. Who has the worst UA?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by AmericanDestiny, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. Kizo

    Kizo Chieftain

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    That's a different argument. What I said:
    I do wish these responses would focus on my actual main point more than some trivial assessment of whether extra sight is useful. I've said it's useful twice in this thread. I just don't feel it's worthy of being a UA, or even part of one.

    Every single other civ, even including the other two discussed in this thread, has some unique aspect that makes playing as them feel different from playing as anyone else, by virtue of influencing gameplay. Having +1 sight doesn't change how you grow, tech, influence, expand, spend, preach, or even how you fight, as opposed to other domination civs with dictated military styles (hit-and-run for Mongolia, swarm for Zulu, etc.). The problem isn't that +1 sight is bad, because it isn't, it's that it isn't unique.
     
  2. GoStu

    GoStu King

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    Man, how DID we overlook France's terrible UA? Seriously, it's like maximum 50 extra tourism to your capital, and to even get that it's very late game and you'd have to have the start of a lifetime and build multiple simultaneous wonders in Paris.

    City of Light SUUUUUUUCKS. India's is at least useful eventually, Denmark's useful in very specific circumstances, and America's is of some use in all circumstances.
     
  3. j51

    j51 Blue Star Cadet

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    It could really use a buff, like simply being double tourism in the capital?
     
  4. adwcta

    adwcta King

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    They have chateaus, and being in one city is fine for nvc and world religion. It's not great, but better than Poly, mathematically speaking. I have the math in the deity tiers thread.

    Anyway, some bad UAs, like France's is balanced out by a ridiculous UI. If culture victory were itself not the most difficult VC, then France would be fine. Really, Denmark, Polynesia, Byz, and Iroquois stand out as being BAD.
     
  5. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    France UA also give you more culture (side benifint of theaming bonus), if you got the theaming bonus.
    It also doubles the benifint of finishing Asthetics in the capital which is pretty good.
    France also have the chateaus which culture can later on be converted to tourism allowing an easier win and make you less dependent on Great Works for culture and tourism then other civs.
     
  6. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Yes, I agree it's different. The reason is because what you said isn't correct (they most definitely are not "exactly the same" AND America's benefit doesn't give them just one front line unit, the entire front line gets +1 sight). So I tried to "fix" your argument.

    Well, that's no fun. Can't argue with a subjective opinion! :lol:

    Anyway, in practice, I do find it valuable, myself. Being able to skip building Scout units, having the flexibility of being able to discover terrain with multiple units speeds up fog reveal for city expansion planning and getting ruins, having the flexibility of being able to scout with whatever unit is closest instead of feeling I need to bring my Scout over there, being able to get extra sight during wars from any of my units: it's all valuable.

    As good as, say, "All coastal Cities get a free Harbor?" Not really. But then again, I think it's better than
    • Receive triple gold Gold from Barbarian encampments and pillaging Cities.
    • Raze Cities at double speed.
    • Combat Strength +30% when fighting City-State units or attacking a City-State itself.
    • etc.
    And, there's always the point that each Unique does not have to have parity with each other. Each *civ* (defined by all of its Uniques together) should have parity. So, to really say America sucks rocks, we need to also consider the B17 and Minuteman.

    Actually, I do play differently with the +1 sight, as described above. I also play differently with the discounted tile purchases, Minuteman, and B17.
     
  7. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

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    Chateaus are great. But they also poke a hole in the French UA, or the UA pokes a small hole in them, because a wonder-monger only wants to work farms and mines/quarries/pastures. Chateaus are just culture-boosted trading posts.

    Working chateaus in Paris is a drain on growth. I typically have 5 built in range of Paris but struggle to work 3 even with 3 food caravans in, because specialists and wonders are my priority. That would be a fine balance normally - chateaus are for your more rural settlements - can't get 100% of the UI because the UA is also good - but the UA is not good, so it's another annoying thing about New France.

    Ultimately if you ditch the UA and the hope of building wonders in Paris and just focus on conquest, you get the most of France's great UI.
     
  8. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

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    A lot of people mention buffing pillaging for Denmark, which is weird for me because pillaging has already been buffed*. It gives health now. It's a city-killer tool.

    But what might be fun is getting gold from every melee attack on a city, like how Privateers work, but for land units. Emphasis on "might." The privateer gold feature is so laughably useless. And land melee units are too delicate to take on cities at most points of the game, though Denmark has an advantage with fast-moving Metal Casting swords (I've taken down cities with unsupported Berserkers in BNW, it's fun).

    Probably a dumb idea. But we'd never know without playing it.

    *Actually everything about Denmark has been buffed since Vanilla. Embarked units defend now. All naval and by extension naval-hybrid warfare was made stronger (a better investment) in both G&K and BNW thanks to melee ships and sea trade routes. More civs with tundra and hill bias that you'll be conquering at some point. Denmark has a 3-movement swordman at Metal Casting. "But I just don't want to embark any units uwaaaaaa"
     
  9. Sylexz

    Sylexz Chieftain

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    GT-I9082 Tapatalk
     

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