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America in Decline

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by madviking, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. Shadylookin

    Shadylookin master debater

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    All the food "stamps" around here are actually like a debit card. It's not uncommon for people to sell them for cash because there's no reasonable way they would consume that much food especially since children can get free breakfast and lunch at school
     
  2. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Why is it the governments job for this?

    Do you even have a remote clue as to how many people are fed by churches? Non-government food programs?

    I bet not.

    Why should people rely on the government to bail them out, when it should be their neighbors working through local means to take care of this need.

    People dont have to go hungry if they know where to be to get food and clothing, and yes, there is a plethora of it if one indeed knows where to be. At least thats the case where I live as there are tons of local churchs that feed homeless people around here each and every day.

    And fwiw, I think thats how it should be instead of laying it at the feet of the government.
     
  3. Karalysia

    Karalysia Deity

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    Because private charity provides far less comprehensive coverage in terms of social services and is far less effective at it then what the government is capable of.
     
  4. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    You sound just like nationalists in some post-colonial Asian or African banana republic.
     
  5. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    Both Europe and America are parts of the evil We$t, both are equally disgusting:gripe:
     
  6. Karalysia

    Karalysia Deity

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    That is a lousy definition of an empire, since it is absent of well, any actual characteristics of an empire.
     
  7. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    I counted three characteristics of an empire...

    1.) military force/projection
    2.) control of territory
    3.) world influence
     
  8. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Mm hmm. Back in 2000, neoconservatives were predicting America, liberal democracy and free-market capitalism would take over the world and that the US would be unchallenged in the future. Naturally, it all happened just as they predicted...
     
  9. Karalysia

    Karalysia Deity

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    None of which are unique to empires, or were necessary for an empire to exist since say the Aztecs, Inca, Qing or Mughals lacked all of those yet no one disputes that they were in fact empires.
     
  10. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    They did?
    Please, tell me about that. I am all ears.

    Also: Wait a sec...
    Did i claim it was a definition?

    Is that the level of scrutiny regarding accuracy that we should consider obligatory in this forum?
    Since it is - supposedly - a hallmark of your posts?
     
  11. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    Was Manzhoudiguo an empire?
     
  12. Karalysia

    Karalysia Deity

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    It's fairly simple isn't it? They lacked the ability to project military force far beyond their own borders some of them couldn't even project power within their own borders, they generally lacked naval power and overseas territory (however we are to define that), their territorial boundaries varied in size with an empire like Silla, Hoysala or Goryeno being fairly compact (the Korean peninusla or a part of Southern India) to the massive like the Qing or Mughals. Yet no one denies that they were empires. There's a reason for that. You rather need an imperial system and an emperor to have an empire.
     
  13. gangleri2001

    gangleri2001 Garbage day!!!

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    WTF has this article to do with the decline of America? I mean, most empires throughout history haven't given a s**t about the living standards of their population. And not only that, they used to enslave them too. Just take a look at the living standards of most romans or spaniards at the heyday of their power. America when compared to them is a paradise.

    Moderator Action: Foul language
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  14. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    Isn't that to be seen with the military technology that was applied in said states in mind?
    Considering the circumstances the Inca did a pretty awesome job at projecting power.
    As did the Ming and the Qing on gathering tributary states.
    Did i claim that was relevant for the American "Empire"?
    I mentioned it's fleet as a means of projecting power (and to control or disrupt trade).
    Both of that is a result of the technological and geographical circumstances.
    The sea wasn't relevant to the Incas, Aztecs and Mughals ability to project power or control trade. It was of limited relevance to the Qing, matching their limited naval prowess.
    Are you trying to make valid examples or are you just looking for a way to toss the names of some exotic states at me in the (complete and utterly false) hope that i don't know them and will falter in awe of your expertise?
    Well, the part in brackets may be considered an answer to my question.
    Not that i want to deny that it is, but this is the first time i have heard about Silla being called an empire. Well, i can see how it could qualify.
    See, i didn't try to provide a definition of "empire" to use that to attack some other users statements (in my case that would have been Joecoolyo). I was merely gathering circumstancial indicators.
    But since you are so keen about that, why don't we check... wikipedia, as a start?

    Emphasis added.

    See, if you care to revisit my post, you will see that i was for the most part describing the US's territorial extremeness. ;)

    Of course i have noticed that with the definition with having an emperor and stuff you can conveniently avoid recognising the Soviet Empire as an empire, even though a lot of other people do so... :mischief:

    Also note that as a result of the pure goodness of my heart i didn't demand that you prove that the US are not ruled by an "oligarchy" (see the wiki quote).
    I imagine, you of all people would not be all that comfortable doing so. :)
     
  15. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    If you call some parts of the world catching up to us, decline, sure.

    Anyone can cherry pick 2 women with food from a charity in their country and throw up a picture and claim that's how we are perceived. And anyone can find that one outlier exception, the Pat Brown.

    The claim that that's how all the unemployed live, or that somehow a recessionary environment is indicative of some sort of downfall, when the rest of the world got hit too, seems silly.
     
  16. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    Not reading three pages to see if this has already been mentioned, but when the EU collectively spends enough on its military to protect the free world from bad people, I'll let you know what I think of them. Otherwise, don't compare our budgets.
     
  17. Yared

    Yared That Guy

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    Why did they even bring her up? There are probably millions of better examples.

    Ecotaxes?

    The money that is "eaten up by taxes" doesn't just disappear into thin smoke. A lot of the services that Americans pay for "individually" are paid for by everybody.

    So it's an unfair comparison. A better comparison would be how much an American has left of his paycheck vs how much, say, a Swede has left of his paycheck after the American has paid all the expenses that the Swede pays through taxes.
     
  18. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    Exactly.

    Equally underestimated is to not rely on gdp per capita figures that Americans love to cite to prove their supposedly high standard of living but to account for the manhours per capita and stress (i.e. health constraint) per capita in some way as well.
    You mean like blowing up the most anti-islamistic regime in the middle east and making all of us incredibly less safe as a result?
     
  19. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    Higher manhours per capita is not a bad thing. Idle hands are the devil's playground.
     
  20. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    Idle hands stay healthy, raise kids, study, help others without expecting pay, relax and pray (i.e. reflect on whether what surrounds you really is what a "Christian nation" should look like).

    That doesn't sound that devilish.

    On the other hands there is an abundance of famous cases in which people working 80 hours a week managed to squeeze in all kinds of immoral things*, from drugs to hookers to raping their wifes to an extramarital blow job in the White House.

    I'd consider reviewing that saying. :mischief:

    *Edit: Of course it's debateble whether all those things are actually immoral. I'm refering to some sort of media consesus here.
     

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