Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Funak, Nov 21, 2014.
+1 to not letting America purchase Citadels.
But purchasing citadels is so much much!
Just don’t plant a citadel within 3 tiles of America you silly billies
Agreed. Some strats just don’t work that well against certain civs, so play differently!
Could we please nerf every civ's uniques so that they can't use them to beat me?
+1 to better wider/scaling tile-buying for America even at the expense of early wonder rushing.
While early game wonder spamming is definitely an effective strategy, I agree it doesn't feel thematic.
One area of Vox Populi I feel hasn't been explored is mid and late game settling through Pioneers and Colonists. From what I've read it seems pretty unanimous that settling wide with Pioneers and Colonists isn't advisable because of how long it will take these cities to get productive (save for settling for resources or strategic purposes). I feel like America can fill this gap if you have the gold (Pioneers and America seem apt!).
I think pioneers are pretty good.
I agree is well, depends on the map and conditions. For terra maps as an example, pioneers are a key unit
They're still too expensive tho
I don’t mind some cost decrease. It’s actually a little silly too how cheaply you can upgrade a pioneer from a settler and avoid so much cost
Yeah this is the secret to pioneers.
America is a fun civ, but not very thematic. I think if the bonus was somehow tied to pioneers then that would make more sense.
Perhaps something that lets pioneers settle only ~2 tiles away from other cities. So you can expand into other people's land that you normally wouldn't be able to. And you can buy their tiles. Obviously the production would need to be nerfed, if it was way weaker early game but then got stronger mid game that would be good.
So the strategy would be to settle near other players, buy their tiles to get the city more production, and then potentially declare war if needed.
Might be OP, and we'd need to change quite a few things.
The AI is already annoying enough about forward settling. A whole civ doesn't need to be designed around forward settling.
And that doesn't fit with America either. They became powerful through a constant stream of immigration, peace and a massive amount of land to expand into.
Their UA could be something like
Land of Liberty - Trade routes increase city growth rate. Reduced Empire Unhappiness, and 1+ Happiness in each city. Can purchase settler units with gold.
This would encourage a wide, but happy empire that can still grow effectively.
Or maybe a UA based around picking different bonuses upon each era, as a Democracy/Leader bonus. So each age America can specialise temporarily.
What isn't thematic about America buying land?
The Louisiana Purchase (1803)
The Florida Purchase (1819)
The Gadsden Purchase (1854)
The Alaska Purchase (1867)
The Oklahoma Organic Act (1893)
The Washington Treaty (Cagayan and Sibutu, 1900)
The Treaty of the Danish West Indies (US Virgin Islands, 1916)
Those tracts of land are like buying cities. Not buying separate tiles. And they bought territory to settle in. They didn't buy territory to build a ton of early wonders that they didn't exist in the same time period as, and then rapidly fall in power. America should be a late-game civ, but instead, they are mostly early game.
Yeah, it is a good point that foward-settling is pretty annoying. It can be countered by war however. Perhaps this would need adjusting.
I think your idea would work but it's kinda boring tbh. I like the current version that represents America's expansion.
I totally agree with you - that's why I kept it in the UA i proposed. What's not thematic is that America is a civ where you get to build a ton of early wonders. The strategy with America is to build early wonders, and then get a boost around mid game. The early wonders thing doesn't make sense so that's why I suggest we change it. That's also why I'm not suggesting a rework of the UB/UU (perhaps small tweaks if we need better synergy)
I think if anything were to be changed about America it is the Smithsonian.
The Smithsonian has large bonuses, but they are % increases over things the Hermitage already provides. I don't know what I would do with the building instead, but it's not particularly geared towards either a science or cultural victory. It's just a double hotel / converter and a 10/ in every city, but with a super late game unlock (need 1250 museum and 2000 broadcast tower in city).
The civ gets by on the strength of its UA and to a lesser extent the UU. The UNW is nice enough, but it's far too late, and it is not splashy in the least.
If people are proposing a rebuild, how about this:
UA: Manifest Destiny. When you gain a tile that borders another civilization, steal their neighboring tiles and a citizen from their nearest city. Vassals provide double taxes and free copies of luxury resources, and they gain a military production bonus when you are at war with a common foe. UB: Mall (Bank Replacement). When you purchase a tile, it is automatically improved and you gain the tile yields for 20 turns without having a citizen work the tile. UU: Founding Father, Great General and Diplomat Replacement. Replaces both GG and GD, and has all the powers of both. Additionally, can found a new city like a pioneer.
This is incredibly gross, no. If I was ever bordering America it would force killing them immediately in Ancient to be the #1 priority. At least the version they have now of the tile steal is balanced by huge cost and needing to be a deliberate action.
Perhaps adding Opera Houses to the list of buildings affected by it would help. We could lower the Yields to 4 per building (12 total) if 15 / is too much.
Separate names with a comma.