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America!

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by crdvis16, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    PSA- if you haven't tried it yet, it's quite fun to wonder-whore as America in the early game. You can pretty reliably get Stonehenge AND Pyramids on Deity to start, followed by either Mausoleum or Artemis (I only managed to get both in 1 play through) and often finishing with Hanging Garden (or presumably Roman Forum if you wish). You also have a very good shot at getting the very first religion via Goddess of Beauty (likely founding around T80 or so).

    It helps if your start has luxuries that innately give gold right from the beginning or if you have some decent production tiles. I never had a start that was both gold and production poor but I imagine this strategy would be difficult in that case.

    The sequence I used was this:

    T0 - research the wheel (for Stonehenge) and build a monument

    T11ish - The Wheel will finish and as soon as monument finishes start on Stonehenge. Start researching Mining to unlock Pyramids. You want to finish building Stonehenge in the following 11 turns or so that it takes to research Mining and you do this by spending gold buying tiles- the cheapest tiles first. Every tile gives you 20 production at a time when your total city production is probably ~8 or so? You can likely buy ~5 tiles while building it which should be enough for the timing to work out.

    Also, your monument should give you your first policy- unlock Tradition and put those 2 new citizens to work giving you more production and/or gold.

    T22ish - Stonehenge finishes well before any AI would typically build it giving you the likely first pantheon (other than a few civs like India, of course). Go with Goddess of Beauty as your pantheon. Mining should also have finished by now so that you can start on Pyramids.

    Your goal now is to speed build Pyramids by ~T35 or so at the latest. I haven't seen the AI build it before then on Deity- typically it's more like T39 or T40 from what I've seen.

    For your next tech you need to decide if Artemis (with a free Herbalist) or Mausoleum (with a free Stone Works) is more attractive. Whichever it is, start teching for it. I'd suggest settling your 2nd city from Pyramids directly on a lux in order to sell it for GPT.

    When you get your 2nd policy go with Justice. The Engineering points from Beauty, Stonehenge, Pyramids, and working the Engineering slot will all contribute to get you your first Great Engineer super early. You won't need the +3 faith from opening Sovereignty first- Goddess of Beauty will easily get you your religion.

    Also, you should have a small window at this point to build a worker and/or a warrior or two. A worker that can connect a lux (that you can turn around and sell) is really nice- that extra GPT means more tile buying and more crazy early production.

    T40ish - You should be able to start working on Mausoleum or Artemis. Your Great Engineer may be born while working on it- you can decide if you think it's necessary to bulb him to guarantee the wonder or not- might depend on how rich you are. I was able to be greedy in one play through and was rich enough to buy tiles for Artemis and then use the GE on Mausoleum.

    After deciding on Artemis/Mausoleum you should be able to tech Pottery before going all the way to Mathematics for Hanging Garden or Roman Forum. Buying tiles to speed build settlers is also a nice way to minimize those lost turns of growth.

    T??? - By the time you unlock Mathematics you might only have a few inexpensive tiles left to buy in order to rush build Hanging Garden or Roman Forum but I've found that they are still usually obtainable.

    Also, with 3+ wonders under your belt and a great Artist likely on the way you should found by T80 or so.
     
    mtxdevil, swapoer and CrazyG like this.
  2. Noob Fanboy

    Noob Fanboy Warlord

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    Artemis have a nice sinergy with mathematics now, building those composite bowmens early for defense
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  3. cerk

    cerk Chieftain

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    How would you rate this compared to tradition sovereignty Russia.

    How effective is pyramids in general when compared to a standard pottery settler. Does the pyramids settler circumvent the requirement of 4-1 pop?
     
  4. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I find America quite interesting to play because his bonuses are centered on the very early game and the very late game, with relatively low benefits during the medieval era. Its always fun to play someone unique.

    This guide is good and overall the best way to play USA IMO. Wonder spam is a very strong strategy, with a big weakness (inconsistency), which the American UA addresses very well.

    The Pyramids are an excellent wonder and you do not lose a population to build them.
     
  5. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Yeah, the pyramid rush is a very solid strategy. In fact, I don't think the AI values it enough, especially if they are going tradition.
     
    LifeOfBrian likes this.
  6. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    Russia's UA procs off of natural tile gain but not buying tiles I believe so it's harder to front load the benefits. Russia and America don't end up playing the same imo. Though I admit that the border blobs strategy is super fun as Russia.

    I kinda think the AI isn't going for Pyramids or Stonehenge early enough. Either one is obtainable basically every game from what I've seen. The AI must never choose wheel or mining as the first tech or maybe is putting much higher priority of military early on and delays them too much?
     
  7. 065tdsa

    065tdsa Chieftain

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    My experience is you're right, except for a few cases where I saw a very early Stonehenge the AI just doesn't rush them, you can always get either one even without any special boosts.

    Then again, before pyramids was on mining, too many AIs rushing Stonehenge when it was the only wonder available was just a bad idea. Nowadays I guess a higher priority on both might be best, but pyramids is so valuable that if it is given the attention it deserves it'll just lead to the same.
     
  8. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Emperor

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    The cost of going Pyramids should be foregoing a Pantheon for the time being, as you'd have to go Monument --> Pyramids to reasonably grab it. Right now you can go Monument ---> Shrine ---> Pyramids, which isn't right to me, there is literally no reason not to go Pyramids unless you really want another wonder.
     
  9. Noob Fanboy

    Noob Fanboy Warlord

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    Maybe shrine pyramids with a culture pantheon?
     
  10. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I agree, I just bagged it on immortal difficulty with progress and getting monument shrine. Realistically I would never expect to get it unless I go tradition, or authority with really good land and a key ruin...and in both cases sacrificing shrine.

    But since the new change I’ve never had a problem rushing it in many games
     
  11. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    Agreed that pyramids and stonehenge should be committed to more strongly by the AI if they are going to go after them. The AIs that really want them should be getting the tech first and building the wonder as soon as it's available (or after their first building finishes which is usually only another turn or two). That would put it back to being a gamble for everyone rather than more or less a sure thing.

    I also wonder if Pyramids could use a slight nerf if the -1 pop from settler creation is to remain.
     
  12. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    If Pyramids requires the proper amount of commitment (instead of right now where its fairly easy to get), I don't think so. Its a great benefit, but there is a cost. You are delaying or sacrificing religion to get it, and I find the current happiness balance does restrict expansion, at least for a bit. So you can't just use it to spread wildly without some happiness lashback.

    All in all I don't think its OP, its just....wonder worthy:)
     
  13. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    Good point- if it becomes more competitive and you have to skip either the early monument or early shrine then the opportunity cost does make it balanced.
     
  14. andersw

    andersw King

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    Yes the free settler from pyramid IS free and does not cost any pop.
    I consider it a tradition wonder, I don't think its worth it as authority.
    I want my first settler to line up with imperium if possible from barbs, citystate or ai kills and a pyramid rush means I either delay imperium by settling before that or have an idle settler until I have imperium online.
     
  15. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I can’t possibly imagine waiting for imperium as a viable strategy for authority players. You sacrifice way more than just 40:c5culture::c5science: by waiting for your third policy to build a settler. You are giving up loads of :c5food: on your >4:c5citizen: capital, all the :c5faith:/:c5culture:/:c5science: that an expo could generate in those 40+ turns of delay, and you’re giving away tons of free land for your neighbours to settle. The free settler is usually my 4th city, and maybe if I had a slow start, my 3rd settler, which is already out and moving to its city placement position can benefit from the imperium bonus.
     
  16. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    You don't have to wait until the 4th policy to build the settler, just to plant it. So if you have turns to build the settler, and 5 turns of walking, you can start it about 13 turns away from the policy (and sometimes I have in position but wait a turn to get the bonus).

    Depending how strong your culture is, waiting can work out quite well. As authority I usually don't mind getting forward settled either.
     
  17. randomnub

    randomnub Prince

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    civmurica.png

    Undocumented beta change: AI reads the forum.
     
  18. andersw

    andersw King

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    If barbs are running amok in that land then no, but with less land and close neighbours, sometimes there is a need for a faster settle.
    But the timing with imperium is worth a lot if in conjunction with the first built settler.
    The no imperium settler also does miss out on a free tile expand which can mean a difference on where you settle and even a slowdown the city in some cases compared to waiting for imperium.
    The free tile expand is also extra gold and hammers into monument/shrine whichever you start with.
    But it depends a bit on terrain, civ, neighbours and techpath.
    I often open stonehenge -> warrior/granary -> settler which lines things up pretty well with imperium, sometimes the settler needs to wait up to 4-5 turns but its worth that imo.
     
  19. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I also try to line up imperium with my settler. Not in every case, but I often find the bonuses worth it.
     
  20. Omen of Peace

    Omen of Peace Prince

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    Delaying settlers lets you build units faster, for more barb killing and tributing... hence you may reach Imperium faster.
    But if you have few barbs/few CS, then settling faster makes sense.
     

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